Journalist Gretchen Carlson and Fortune Senior Editor Ellen McGirt Discuss the Path to Gender Equality

From sales for Studios. This is blazing trails.

Welcome to Blazing Trails. I'm Laurel Woods from the Salesforce blog today. We're joined by journalist author and empowerment Advocate Gretchen Carlson in 2016. Gretchen helped pave the way for the me-too movement with her historic sexual harassment lawsuit against Rodger Ailes, the former CEO and chairman of Fox News. Gretchen is now putting her network knowledge and personal experience to battle in the fight to reform institutions. I have historically kept women silent. This was one of the most powerful talks at dreamforce 2019 for me, so I can't wait to present it to you here before we hand it over to Gretchen and moderator and Senior editor at Fortune Ellen mcgirt a quick word about WordPress VIP who is making the show possible. WordPress VIP is the digital publishing solution that powers the world's top media companies as well as marketing platforms for some of the best-known brands like time and Facebook later on in this episode. You'll hear more of our conversation with their CEO Nick gernert

And now let's listen to Gretchen speaking with Ellen about the path to gender equality.

Please join me in welcoming to the stage Gretchen Carlson.

Well, I have so many things to talk about and we were chatting backstage like like journalists sisters that we can take what we talked about in the green room because it's bigger where all the energy really happens and we were also commenting on your if your beautiful Ensemble today. Thank you so much. I love wearing pants. So I want to start with what you working on now because I think it's so incredibly important that it sets the stage to everything that's happened. You are work on Capitol Hill you are now an arbitration expert talk about arbitration. The audience has heard of a glazed look on their face. I like what the hell is she talking about to let me just ask a members of the audience. Do you know if you have an arbitration clause in your employment contract?

Yeah, a few hands so normally people don't know this as I didn't really pay attention to it either because listen you don't expect to get into any kind of dispute when you start a new job and the problem with arbitration. It's become incredibly prevalent 60 million Americans have them in their play. Macon tracks Now does not allow you to go to court if you have any kind of dispute now, this is incredibly important for sexual harassment cases, which arbitration was never intended to solve because its silences the victim who's usually the woman right? And so here are the problems you go to complain the company goes we have an arbitration Clause with her. Nobody will ever know about this because arbitration is Secret.

So now you go to the case, you don't get the same amount of witnesses. You don't get to do the same amount of depositions. There are no appeals. The arbitrators are tend to be retired judges and lawyers who may not be. Adept at understanding harassment issues and you might get some sort of a paltry settlement you never work again, you can tell nobody whatever happened to you. And the worst part is the perpetrator gets to stay on the job and keep harassing and getting a big paycheck because nobody knows about it. That's what I'm trying to change on Capitol Hill. I'm trying to pass the ending forced arbitration Act of sexual harassment so that women in our country are no longer muzzled in handcuffs and they have a voice

The Ransom of that Tales from behind the scenes here because I know this we've been covering politics a long time by Artisan Works and it seems like you've got real support So after covering politics for so long, I've learned that unless the bill is bipartisan it never has a chance in hell of passing. And by the way sexual harassment isn't a political issue before somebody decides to harass you. They don't ask you what party you're in and this is why we should all care about this issue and that's what I've been telling members of Congress as I've been walking the Halls over the last couple of years. So my sponsors are Senator Lindsey Graham Republican in South Carolina and Senator Kirsten gillibrand Democrat New York. And in the house representative Cheri Bustos, Democrat, Illinois and representative Elise. Stefanik Republican New York. We first introduced the bill in both houses in both Chambers at the end of December 2017. We took

Reintroduce the bill in the house in May and I testified before the house committee. I'm very optimistic that this bill will now be again introduced in the Senate and that we will actually see this potentially pass and its narrow enough in scope that yet. Yo, it's a really important Point. Thank you Ellen. So this is only with regard to sexual harassment and arbitration. It's a three-page pill and so it's very easy to understand and this is the way in which we can try to get Republicans on board to support it because they tend to be against getting rid of arbitration. And so that's how I'm hoping to get the the bipartisan support. Sometimes it feels are too big and scope. You're just never going to get the support and you simply introduce them and they vanish so we should talk about the journalism that you're doing now. Can you buy the book BB fears is excellent. I'm sorry. I can't get you to sign up because I haven't

Kindle version it is excellent. It is incredibly well reported an intersectional and scope you spoken to women who are very different from yourself people who don't have the kind of platform. They that you do. Can you talk to us a little bit about how you put that project on what you learned while you were writing. It will after I jumped off the cliff on July 6th 2016 in filing a lawsuit. I felt like I was completely alone. This was 15 months before the me-too movement exploded before the Harvey Weinstein allegations came to light and I realized soon thereafter that I wasn't alone because I was buoyed by so many other women across the country who started reaching out to me and sharing with me their stories of pain and an Agony & Shane.

And I realized oh my God, this is a pervasive epidemic and a cross is every socioeconomic line and every profession and I didn't even realize that when I filed my case.

And so I realized I had to do something to honor these women because they all said the same thing to me. Thank you for being the voice for the voiceless.

And I thought I don't want them to be silent anymore. I want people to know that this is a pervasive problem. And so that was really the Genesis of be fierce in the book was sharing these very painful stories. And then also providing a play book chapter for my 12 points of what every woman or man should do if they find themselves facing harassment in the workplace. I'm so was not only I'm giving truth to these stories and honor these women but also moving forward as to how do we fix this and get to some of your tips in a minute but really what we're talking about here is power armor. And and when when there is a lack of transparency when everything happens in secret, the entire culture is Rob's at the opportunity to see their best and brightest Thrive. We don't even know there's no way to know how many women in this country and Men

Have been subjected to harassment and are forced out of their jobs and never work again. Maybe could be I know it's thousands.

But I don't know if it's a hundred thousand. I don't know if it's 500,000. I don't know if it's a million to do a show of hands when we don't, you know, it's either has been or know someone who has been a victim of sexual harassment in the workplace in my hand is up and I'm not to show you what a hands up looks like cuz it's also me so the bottom line is the majority of the women. In fact more than a majority. I'd say 99% of the women who reached out to me.

After they found the courage to come forward and by the way did nothing wrong.

They never work in their chosen profession ever again, and that is outrageous. And I know that I'm not okay with that.

And I don't think most Americans are okay with that now that we're talking about this issue and that's what gets me up every morning along with this bracelet that says be fierce, but I look at every single day cuz some days I got to be honest I wake up and I think I don't really have it in today. And then I look at this and I think about all those women who been silenced and it it it gets me going again to get out there and do everything I can every day to fix this. So it happened to you and having to me and having too many people. What have you learned about getting people for whom this has not happened for whom this is invisible to care about this issue. It's a great question. It's why I went on a college campus tours to get to our young people because

You know, we do a fantastic job of raising our girls in our society to empower them. Meaning fact girls are outpacing boys in in certain areas of Academia and in certain areas of of college degrees, but we don't tell them is what they more than likely are going to face when they get into the workplace, which is not being paid fairly not getting the same promotions not getting a seat in the boardroom and oh by the way, you're probably going to be sexually harassed at some point as well.

And so I think we need to be really open and honest with our young women about that. But here's the real key.

We need to get to our boys young. We need to get to them to teach them how to respect women so that when they get into the workplace, they treat their future female colleagues in the same way in which they might look at their mom or their sister. And so that have been the eye-opening experience for me that this issue is really about boys and men. It's not really about women rights.

So you're a documentarian now, yes tells about that. It's been really fun to go back to long-form TV. I find a production deal with a + e networks and that's so far. I've done three production documentaries for them. Thank you. And you don't really on in my career in local news. When I worked in Cincinnati. I was part of the investigative. I team and that was back when local news stations have a lot of money to spend a lot of time working on investigations and you put two female put together at 7 to 10 minute television piece, which is an eternity and television talk, right and so, you know after doing my own chauffeur for so long and then Ensemble live show with everything's live in quick and you know, it's done with it's been really rewarding for me to go back to doing long-form television and really taking the time and spending a lot of time on the interviews. The first documentary was a two-hour special called breaking the silence and I went all the way.

The country last summer and interviewed women that were part of this forgotten group so fast food workers from McDonald's who had faced write a restaurant firefighter woman who work at a nursing home. I wanted to pay tribute to these women that not many people were talking about the reality is that sexual harassment is not just about well-known journalists and Hollywood actresses. The majority of these situations are happening to just lovely people all across the country who don't have that kind of national platform. And so I wanted to to do them Justice with their stories on the last two documentaries. I've worked on her to totally in a different direction. When was on the nxivm cult that was in the ark State and that was fascinating Catherine Oxenberg who was a well-known actress and she's also part of royalty, I think from Europe and she used to be on the show Dynasty from years ago, and her daughter was ensconced in this called and she know worked incredibly hard again.

One Man Band trying to bring it down and then my latest documentary was on the college admissions Scandal which was very enlightening and I have two teenage kids. So I learned a lot myself and hopefully we get a lot of great information to our viewers in the kinds of stories that you're attracted to you. Now that you now that you have learned this this is different sort of platform. Can't you? Listen? I've always been a big supporter and believer in doing stories about women, but it's been great. I think to to have a platform to do longer longer perform stories and I've got a tremendous amount of other ideas out there. So I'm constantly pitching new things and coming up with new Concepts. So I'm not going away anytime soon. I have no doubt. Let's go back to Anoka Anoka Minnesota where you grew up I think has anyone ever heard of that town. By the way. Do you know what's the capital of the world?

The fame growing up we were so proud of it. And how does one become the Halloween cat having a little girl? I know good question. Thank you in the 1940s apparently on the eve of Halloween teenage kids would do like horrible things back then like toilet paper funeral homes tomato cars and and my town was the first to come up with family programs that kept the family together. I'm so the kids were not out getting in trouble and Congress actually gave this this title to my hometown is the Halloween capital of the world that sits in a celebration every year. There's a big parade. I've actually been the Grand Marshal at one point in time and I try to transfer my Midwestern sensibilities to my New York Life and to my kids every single day because I feel blessed to have grown up there challenges your house was taken away by a tornado.

What's the mascot at my high school? Actually, is there tornadoes cuz we've had so many tornadoes they're living with a level of Menace that not everyone says you are also a virtuoso violinist. You said the way I don't I know my dad wishes, but I did I burned out when I was 17, I practiced, you know 4 to 5 hours a day and it was really my career as a kid, but it taught me a men's discipline and and that's something that's carried through with me for my whole life. And I really can spank them all of those hours practicing for even my advocacy work now in my journalism work because I just have this fire in my belly that I developed from from that talent and I got you into the pageant business. Well, it got me. Yes because 50% of your points in the Miss America competition. You were based on Talent. My mom was very upset that I quit the violin and so that was her way to try to get me to continue.

Play the violin and the pageant the Miss America Pageant of the beauty of the beauty circuit wax. She was very was very good for you. Well, I ended up working really hard. I was a student at Stanford and Oxford at the time and dropped out to pursue that that goal. I'm it happens and I'll get a lot of luck was involved. But you know that experience is really what got me into television. Very mysterious ways are supposed to be a musician that I thought. I was going to be a lawyer then I ended up doing this America like what cuz I'm short have you noticed a violin have never won? I mean, they're all these barriers along the way but then that got me into television because I was doing interviews on a daily basis and I was on one of these shows where they they tried to pull a practical joke on me and afterwards agents called and said have ever thought about doing TV. I was like, no not really, but then they're like if you can do that you can try to do television news and I watched some of your early post pageant when interviews media interviews and it struck me then

That the broadcast media isn't can be an ugly Gauntlet. I didn't like some of the questions they asked you you were very poised you were fast on your feet, but there was a there was a tinge of ugliness there already and I've never forgotten her name because she tried to take me down Penny Crone and rode out to me the she dumped she dumped me the smart Miss America, but it wasn't a compliment. She then tried to make me look stupid and she asked me a series of questions in the middle of a press conference my first one and she got the number 19, which was have you ever done drugs and number 20 was have you ever had sex?

In front of a national audience. I was 22 years old. It was pretty humiliating and I'm not a big believer in Revenge. However

10 years later. I happen to be covering a live event in Bryant Park in New York City and I saw her. Have you ever had one of those moments in your life? Yeah, you're like should I could I

Well, I dug deep.

And I decided I'm going to go up to her and say something so I got done with my live reports. I marched over to her. I put out my hand and I said hi Penny. I'm Gretchen Carlson. You probably don't remember who I am, but about 10 years ago. You tried to take me down.

And I just want to let you know right now, but I'm a correspondent for CBS News and you're not.

And then I marched away as fast as I could but you know what it felt really really good and it's really unfortunate that.

Man, or women reporters feel the need to try in and take people down like that. It stays with you for life. Yeah that sense of humiliation and it was very cathartic for me to approach her in and say that insert of Dino wipe it away from my history. You know, I'm so glad I asked but when you think about work and power and position as a zero-sum game room for one main thing is getting vicious, you know, where I've been on every conversation I've had is a new way of thinking about capitalism and business and purpose that would allow for room for everybody that's going to be more inclusive but that's really the kind of power that were talking about like she had to take you out well in her opinion that her mind or no, but I think I think what you're saying is that we sort of have these token women and inside positions and then they do is try to straddle the fence of

I be in the boys club cuz that will help me keep my job or should I help the women underneath me, but then to the detriment of being in the boys club, right? So that's easily solved. Listen just pay women fairly promote them and put them in the bar. I don't know. What's so tough about it.

I mean honestly and I are going to credit sales for being a leader in that but it's just not that tough to pay women the same salary that you're paying men Great Britain now is publicizing salaries and that may be where we have to go to make it happen. You know, it's the same thing with why I'm fighting so hard on Capitol Hill to eradicate arbitration. Some companies have been brave enough to understand that this is not a passing fad and that we are here to stay and we're going to keep fighting for women to have equal rights. Okay. Now Microsoft took arbitration clauses out of their contracts on their own Federal legislation not forcing them then Uber Lyft then the Google walkout happened. Look at the power of one person that grows into a national day international Google then took arbitration clauses out then Facebook then Airbnb then eBay.

These are companies that are brave enough to be ahead of the curve and say we actually want to do something that's going to make it an equal playing field for men and women in the workplace the force which federal legislation but it's my hope that companies will have meetings internally and decide I could take this on instead of waiting to be forced. I agree. I agree publishing diversity numbers really helps to more data for analysis more sharing it best practices and Report just came out a couple of days ago five years. They've been doing this to Showcase a woman's achievement in the workplace and the promising news was that there has been an uptick in the number of women in Sea suites with regard to diversity not so much is Latina equal pay day. It's I know it like 10 years later than 10 days later than it was last year because we need to be talking about. Yes. It's all about

Continuing the conversation that is what has kept harassment Under Wraps, you know for so long is because arbitrations keeping it secret settlements keeping it secret and then just the fact that we don't really want to talk about those issues right the more conversation we have about this the more we fix it.

We're going to take a quick break now to bring you a conversation with the CEO of Wordpress VIP. Nick gernert WordPress VIP is the leading provider of Enterprise WordPress and they power companies like Facebook Spotify and others my colleague Matt Jaffe sat down with Nick at dreamforce to discuss how his company is approaching important topics like the future of work and digital transformation.

How do you guys see the future work on folding? What would his front of mind for you? And what advice do you have for people out there who are trying to navigate that right now? We were talking earlier about sort of the Trail Blazers in the end the you know, just the developer ecosystem in and what is this year at this event? It makes me think a lot about what happened in a WordPress ecosystem Sandpoint because from from our perspective on WordPress VIP its software that you can go right now. You can look at all the source code that makes this thing working. In fact many people story in our space comes from my well. I opened it up and I just started stepping into like making it do a bit more and like and now I'm a developer and I never would have been a developer if I had user Discovery mentality on that somebody to throw grow their own skills and confidence he ended up take that and and really am able folks to harness their own skills. When we look at it from an Enterprise concept a contract.

A really interesting spectrum that we get to work across which is we're a building products that are focused on Enterprise use cases. So like what are we doing from product development? And we have you know development and product focus on that. And then what are we doing for in support of our own customers, which is often like we're supporting our own customers developers and there's a myriad of challenges that come along with that and we can take folks a very skilled and allow them to focus on different opportunities that we have a cross product and the support of our customers. Is it really interesting what we get to look at is how our own customers like a captain I see themselves in in WordPress and then we can actually get in the code with them and we can look at what they're doing and where do I get elaborate on it? But that's what we're like saying. Hey, you can come in will give you access at two things happening at a massive global scale give you exposure to things that areas where you will be able to contribute on the

What term as well as give you such a path or you're like really, you know developing yourself along the way and not just expecting the folks come in with like a certain high level of confidence and everything else like it part of this is just like getting back to the broader Community right in saying like, how can we help develop Folks up level they're skilled in this. You know, how can we Empower that in the Next Generation? Yeah yodeling absolutely in my mind. Like when we look at how are we building out more diverse teams? It's going in in like investing in the under-represented like Martin's to say like let's bring people into this online. The people that I've already had the opportunity to really like that song that goes like yeah, that's beneficial we can do so much more than that by bringing people. I've been investing in that.

That was Nick graner the CEO of Wordpress VIP to find out more. You can visit WP vip.com and now back to Gretchen and Ellen.

Just go back to the day that you jumped off the cliff. I know there's not a lot you can you can tell us that there is quite a bit that you can tell us about that day behind the scenes. It's July 6th, you filed your case jumps off the cliff all alone by Labor Day with the date or settlement was announced take us back to that time. How does your family respond? How did your friends respond? How did your peers respond please we'll courage is not like turning on a light switch when you walk into a room. This is not something I decided to do the night before right now this took yours.

Of finding the courage because again, this was not something a lot of women were we're doing but first of all, I got the support of my parents who I'm still blessed to have in my life and no matter how old we get. It's always great to know that your parents are behind you. Listen growing up Minnesota. We don't see a lot of people so, you know, there's this Minnesota nice thing and so it was just really really important to me that they were supportive. I couldn't really tell anyone my husband knew of course, right? But that was it besides my lawyers. I told my children the night before I'm the very first thing my been 11 year old son said to me is what's going to happen to our babysitter got fired. Fired and he was like, I'm really concerned about her too. But what about Mom anyway, so we told them the night the night before and then

You know, I stayed up incredibly late with my husband that night and I just remember being in the kitchen and he looked at me and said I really think they underestimated you.

And we had no idea what to expect him. And I didn't know it was going to happen the next moment and

I just finally decided I was going through with it. And so I went to my lawyers house and we had a whole team of people there and we waited for the news to start trickling out and sure enough it did you know and then we waited for a response from Fox and it didn't come and it didn't come and then about 6 p.m. That night. It flashed across the screen on the television that they were going to start an investigation. That's that was cute. That was huge. I mean, we could have never ever predicted that and and then every day was just surreal, you know, after that more women came forward and even if they only told 10% of whatever their truth was it was enough. Yeah, and finally on to September 6th where they announced that they had, you know settled settled my deal but the most important thing to me all and I was sharing this with you backstage was

With how the media perceived that settlement. Yeah, because the most important thing to me was to get an apology and that really never happens in a settlement case because some people might argue that's an admission of guilt. Right and I was sitting it was the first day of school and my husband and I used to always drop off our children and then we go into the City New York City to work together. Well, of course I had been fired but I still was going to go into the city with him and I had some appointments and I was early so I went into the nail salon and nobody in New York City is getting her nails done at 9 a.m. So I was in there by myself and the News started coming out early and I'm bawling my eyes out and I was crying because almost every media Outlet picked up on the apology. Now. The headline was Gretchen Carlson receives a public apology for what happened to her and I've come to find out that that's all women want. They want to have that acknowledgement that they were

Treated like crap.

And that in so many cases their careers for derailed yet and they just want somebody to know what really happened in for somebody to say. I'm sorry.

And so that was just incredibly important to me and I've seen so many women who never get that apology and it stays with them for their whole life as they hope for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I also want to check actually my attacker. I don't even put the company I work for on my LinkedIn that's the level of just he has and I saw him on a plane. He was the CEO of the thing in the middle seat in coach.

That was as close to getting a check as I will ever get but they eliminated my job and he got a big settlement to leave the company. Of course the insult you thought of me in the back of a cab and Taxi Driver kept the meter running then he laughed and I paid the cab and expense my own assault. These are the kinds of stories that you are collecting. Yes, and that happened to me also in my early twenties stories that I never told anyone for 25 years until I wrote my Memoir which was two years before Mike my lawsuit, right and

They happen both within 3 weeks both in cars similar situations and his women were socialized to sort of pushed these things that happen to us way back somewhere into our brains and never acknowledge. It never talked about it and never actually call it what it is. So for 25 years, I never called it a salt now. I didn't either it was when I was writing my book be fierce that I was interviewing Natasha stoynoff who was one of Trump's alleged victims and I was telling her these stories that it happened to me in my twenties. She goes will you realize that was a salt right and like what you talking about? She's like what happened to you when he grabbed your neck and shoved your head into his crotch and you couldn't breathe at the fault it is

And it was so revolutionary for me because this was after.

Everything that happened to me at Fox and I still wasn't calling those first things assault. This is how we're socialized as women especially to to push these things way way down. We call it the cost of doing business what I'm trying to change. I know you are you're still operating under the NDA. Can you tell us any is there any insight you can give us into the process of fighting that? Yeah, so that's my next fight. Now after the I don't know if any of your familiar with the Ronan Farrow book that came out about NBC catch and kill but then NBC maybe a month ago or so said that they would supposedly allow women who had signed nda's there to be able to be released from them. So a group of us at Fox who had to sign ndas got together over the weekend and we have demanded to be let out of are nda's as well and we will see if we get a response.

Do you listen as long as as long as we continue to silence women on this issue? We're never going to solve it and I'm so proud that New Jersey has actually passed a law. Now. That does does not allow you to force any woman or man to sign an NDA with regard to sexual harassment. I'm so stay tuned in the next couple of weeks. I'm going to be announcing a major initiative. So there are there's more fight going on. I know I've no doubt no doubt. So maybe we can talk about some of your advice because you've really become an expert and I appreciate the grace with which you have embraced the role that has been handed to you. You could have that I mentioned in my intro you could have done anything with this but you have chosen you have chosen to fight. I think it's incredibly admirable. Thank you. So what have you learned? What do we need to do as companies?

to make a difference

A lot. It really starts at the top and I always say, you know the buck stops there. So leaders need to be open I'm with their employees and say the buck stops with me and I'm not going to tolerate this and as long as most Fortune 500 companies are still run by men that's going to be up to a man to make that determination men named John if yes exactly James and John, yes, they're going to have to say the buck stops with me and I'm actually going to support and celebrate people who come forward saying that this is happening to them because I don't want this in my workplace that changes the dynamic of this thing completely 180 degrees because right now would still tends to happen. Although it's getting better is that the woman goes to complain and the first reaction is how the hell do we get rid of her? She's trouble maker. How do we save this harasser and trust me? I can be low level people to it's not always the money makers. It's so embedded in our culture to protect the harasser.

So that would be my first piece of advice to the people running the company also, you should not force women to have to go to HR to report these cases because HR is not your friend. I'm sorry to say there's a lot of great people working in HR, but they there their job is to protect the company. So I've been advocating for having independent Ombudsman that you would have come in from the outside to handle these cases to really be able to do a fair investigation. In fact right after my talk. Now, there's going to be a democratic debate in Atlanta and four people running for president have signed a letter asking NBC to have an outside investigation to really get to the heart of the matter of what happened to women there. So, you know being bold enough to have outside people come in and look introspectively at your company to make sure you're doing the right things. You know that takes that takes guts. Listen. They've been putting arbitration clause in your contract because they want to come

Were their dirty laundry. That's the whole point of this to keep it silent. So to be brave that's really being a leader like Marc benioff.

Me that that is really being a brave leader and not approaching this issue. Like it's a passing fad. That's just going to go away over the next couple of months. No, we're going to make sure it's not going to go away and I would just advocate for leaders to be brave and proactive instead of waiting to be forced to do things and they should read your book well chapter 4 as I said is my playbook especially for women. I always say you should just rip that chapter out and put it in your back pocket. It has the 12 points of everything you can do mainly because as women were were socialized to keep beating her head against the brick wall because we think oh my gosh, they're finally going to respect me for how smart I am and they're going to give me that promotion and they're going to stop harassing me right never going to happen. No, and so then we finally deal with it deal with it. And then one day we can bust we go complain but here's the problem. We don't have a plan.

And once you let the genie out of the bottle and complain and you don't have a plan, it's a big problem cuz you probably haven't gathered evidence. You probably haven't told enough Witnesses and and those are all things that you need to assemble. So yes chapter 4 is is my plan for for women. I think it's really the first time that it's it's been put together in that way for you to be able to have that as a resource. So you also mentioned the Google walkout. And so we should also talk about the power of the employee not necessarily to Rally around a single issue or single incident but to begin to force culture change or to have these kinds of conversation. What have you learned observing bad thing a mad because I think it's really important especially as younger workers move into the workforce. So one of my favorite quotes over the last three years, I gravitate to talk to inspirational messages Anonymous, but it goes like this one woman can make a difference but together we rock the world.

And the we can fly that the Google walkout is emblematic of that, you know was one woman's brain child and it turned into an international day and it wasn't just women it was men and to me that showed the power of one voice but the incredible power of when everyone comes together until when young people ask me what can we do within our own workplaces to make it better for us, you know, it's it's like okay. Thus far can be with one person but just get a small group of you together and go to HR and say we don't want arbitration clauses in employment contracts anymore. Right? Right. It's about knowing that you have that power within you as an employee to to make a difference. You don't have to sit back and be silent about it. So that that that's my recommendation. And if you have a story come forward now because if there's ever been a moment in time when the media is actually painted

Listen to this issue. It's now you and I both know if it if I would have said it's 3 years ago.

They're going to be teams of reporters at magazines and newspaper Outlets that are going to devote, you know, devote people just to the issue of sexual harassment. They would have laughed at us and then I know I mean it wasn't covering these stories but it's one of the the biggest reasons why this what I like to call cultural revolution has continued is because the media started paying attention to the stories yet powerful people powerful men are dangerous. I think this was also unusual compliments of events both Mr. L's and Harvey Weinstein not only did damage to the culture of their organizations. They did damage to the broader culture II but that's when it becomes a bigger conversation about what is media look like what is an inclusive Melia look like what is inclusive storytelling look like Wiz inclusive entertainment look like what stories aren't being told that will just make the culture better know that that was something that we can actually rally behind. I'm not sure we could do the same thing if it was a medical device.

Manufacturer, you know what? I mean? Yes, and also, you know social media as much as I don't like it for my kids really played in the office in a positive way because women and Men's Health the ability to come forward either anonymously or putting your name in face on it and it just mushrooms, right the floodgates. I always say the floodgates truly opened after the Harvey Weinstein allegations because so many people came forward and said to me too and it made us realize again how pervasive the whole situation is a beautiful thing about the me-too movement was the first thing the Beautiful on the powerful me to storytellers did was reach out to agricultural workers Hospitality workers in make it about a bigger intersectional Sisterhood and said that was really beautiful and it's why I started the Gretchen Carlson leadership initiative and almost everyday question that I received in the first year after my case was well, you may have had the means and the national platform to get your case out there and hire good lawyers, but what about the single mom?

Who's raising her kids and working three jobs and is also being harassed. She literally can't afford to come forward and that question really pained me because I didn't necessarily have a great answer for it. Right? And so I created the GIF the courage fund and I give grants to organizations that Empower girls and boys, but then I also created true that the Gretchen Carlson leadership Initiative for underprivileged women across our country. We have done 13 cities as part of a tour where they can come to the workshops to get legal advice on harassment. They can come for free and they can bring their children. We provide babysitting and we provide food and fit you leave you completely and power it. So it's mine might you know to help women who don't have the resources you better than me that so many of the reasons why women don't have these resources outside of sexual harassment in the workplace has is systemic its policy stuff. It's there's there's a reason why there's not safe places to play. There's reasons why there's not

Brothers food deserts why people have to work to three jobs and still not make ends meet.

running for politics

For office, I actually was a task to run for Senate in Connecticut 2 years ago. It was not part of my plan man waiting time listen to registered independent my whole life. I would never say no to any opportunity because as we've been talking about my life has worked in really weird ways, and I'm always open to a challenge, but I really think we need to fund a NetSpend card.

Know-it-all, but has a caveat. I think we need to fund independent candidates because until we really get true financing behind them there or not going to be able to do nothing. But know that I think but Connecticut is manageable. I went to Branford High School proud grandma and then work my way right at the coast and right back down to New York. Okay. Now I live in Tornado Alley in St. Louis. Now, I'm here but Connecticut is manageable. Connecticut would be great for you. If I may say, okay. Well some people want me to go home to Minnesota to run for governor. But the thing is I owe you. Winter. I asked if I love Minnesota bring my kids there in August, but you don't listen I am not the type of person that says no to opportunity. And so I don't know, you know, it's not in the cards for me right now, but I've already been dragged through the mud. So I think I've faced a part of it. I think you're ready. We know a lot about you and Nicole Kidman can also stunt for you.

I think it's very entertaining. I'm sure she'd be willing a house to realize that they have Nickel in Nicole Kidman, you know trading to have your life for trade especially with such a sensitive subject matter. I know something so personal and so there's going to be tons of liberties with the storyline but I have to take the big picture outlook on this. Yes and the big picture outlook on on this movie were talking about bombshell which comes out in December is that it's continuing the conversation about this issue. And by the way, they would have never done a movie on this issue as well treat her to go. So we've come a long way and if one woman finds the courage from going to this movie to come forward then it's it's worth it to me whether or not there are tons of Liberties in the script or not. All right, but if we do need to work on campaign Finance reform at that. Now and my to do list, yes, thank you. Okay. I'll help you. All right. What do you have a plan?

I'll help you come up with thank you. Thank you very much. We only have a couple of minutes left and I do want to get some advice points. We are hearing reports and I hear about this a lot of an Insidious backlash in the workplace where men are now worried about giving women feedback mentoring women having professional dinners, all those kinds of things. And of course, this is the terrible flip side of too much power that once once an executive exits your life and you're not going to get the kind of development that you need to go up here to proceed in your career. Have you heard this and what's your best advice to help organizations?

Encourage men to get past the resistance. I think it's a total cop-out. We listen men know when they're acting appropriately or not and know when you're on vice president actually put it out there that maybe men shouldn't go to lunches or dinners with women, you know solo as far as a work thing which Twisters really detrimental because women are already facing, you know discrimination and then to take take you out of the cycle of doing business just because men can't keep it together, you know, what does a server ridiculous sentiment but I'm also scared of outside of our own career path, which is the media because there were one or two articles about this possible backlash and then it's like it's God's word.

Why is the media covering that in the same way in which the media after a Titan Falls within three weeks? I'll be sitting at home and I'll look up at the screen in the Chiron, you know going on the bottom. It will be like when is Bill O'Reilly coming back? You know, when is Matt Lauer making his comeback and I'm like what the hell if we talk about Redemption for the people immediately. This is how embedded this isn't our culture right. Even thinking right in the newsroom's they're talking about. When are they making a comeback what that should say on the car around is when are all the women you've been wrong for simply coming forward and being courageous. When are they coming back? Right we're going to work to make sure they do.

We are almost out of time you have.

A beautiful Mantra that you created that I was wondering if you could take us out by by reading it. Did you have your copy with you to look at you? I brought that you gave me a little heads up. I guess I did. So this is at the start of chapter 4 in my book be fierce and I think a really good thing to read to yourself every single day. It goes like this. I have a right to fulfill my dreams. I have a right to pursue any career. I choose. I have a right to Excel without malicious interference.

I have a right to be treated with respect in my professional and personal lives. I have a right to not be touched unless I want to be touched. I have a right to work in an environment free of visuals that demean and objectify women. I have a right to not be stalked. I have a right to be called by my name not diminutive nicknames. I have a right to work without hearing comments about my body or appearance. I have a right to not be pestered for dates when I make it clear that I have no interest. I have a right to advance up the ladder based on my hard work and abilities.

I have a right to speak out without fear of retaliation or intimidation when I'm demeaned harassed or assaulted.

I have a right to be myself not be defined by stereotypes.

Gretchen thank you so much. Thank you for your courage. Thank you for having this conversation. And please let us know how we can support your campaign.

That was Gretchen Carlson and Ellen mcgirt at dreamforce 2019 going back to the beginning of a recession. It's so important to think of this as an issue that affects all of us not just women and girls but also men and boys and how we raise the next generation of men to treat their future women co-workers with respect and if we can all come together in this that's when we're going to see real change if you enjoy this conversation and want more like it be sure to hit subscribe on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app that doesn't for another episode of Blazing Trails. Thank you for listening and thank you to Wordpress VIP for presenting the show with us will be back next week with more conversations like this.

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