Healthy Eating Doesn’t Have to Be Difficult: A Conversation with Kelly LeVeque

Michael Rivo: Welcome back to Blazing Trails. I'm Michael Rivo from Salesforce Studios. I'm joined again today by my podcast partner, Rachel Levin. Welcome back, Rachel.

Rachel Levin: Good to be here, Michael.

Michael Rivo: Well, that was just my stomach growling, which is actually a perfect lead in for what we're going to hear today. We have a great conversation from our Be Well Together series with Kelly LeVeque. Can you tell us a little bit about what we're going to hear today, Rachel?

Rachel Levin: Well, Kelly LeVeque is the nutritionist to A- listers, people like Jessica Alba, and she's the one who keeps them slim, trim and in good shape. And I think that's something that I definitely could use right now, Michael because I feel like I've become best friends with the people at the grocery store as that's one of the few places I can go to every day.

Michael Rivo: It's true. A- listers and just regular, everyday people like us need this kind of advice. And it's some great stuff where Kelly really breaks down the science behind the cravings that we have and how food affects our mood and our bodies. And it's really a great conversation.

Rachel Levin: Yeah. And I really like the way she talks about the Fab Four and I'm not referring to the Beatles here, Michael. I know that's where your head immediately went.

Michael Rivo: Okay. But don't give it away, Rachel.

Rachel Levin: Okay.

Michael Rivo: We'll learn about the Fab Four in this episode. It's okay with you?

Rachel Levin: Yeah, I'm holding. I'm holding.

Michael Rivo: Great. Well, we hope you enjoy the conversation today with Kelly LeVeque and Salesforce's Jody Kohner, Executive Vice- president of Global Enablement. And for more head over to sfdc. co/ wellbeing, and that's where you can find our Wellness Playbook that's created in partnership with Thrive Global and tune into some great sessions with Deepak Chopra, Megan Rapinoe, Arianna Huffington, and many, many more. So without further ado, here's Jody Kohner in conversation with Kelly LeVeque.

Jody Kohner: Hello. I'm thrilled. You are joining us for another edition of Be Well Together. We have such a great guest today. I'm very, very excited to welcome the very talented Kelly LeVeque. This is her first time on our show, but she is not new to show business. She is a holistic nutritionist. She is a celebrity health coach who works with A- listers like Jessica Alba and Jennifer Gardner and Chelsea Handler and Evan Peters. I personally love her book. She does The Body Love series and she has a new one coming out, A Journal: 90 Days to Practice Positivity, Create Momentum, and Build a Healthy Lifestyle. You can also catch her on the Be Well by Kelly Podcast. Great name, Kelly, by the way.

Kelly LeVeque: Thank you.

Jody Kohner: We love Be Well. And so she's here today to inspire us with simple and healthy and tasty tips to nourish our bodies throughout this whole crazy time. So welcome to Be Well Together, Kelly.

Kelly LeVeque: Jody, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. When I think about what we're all going through, it's really challenging us to expand our talents, to get cooking in the kitchen, giving us an opportunity to really take care of ourselves. So I'm excited to be here to support your employees and clients to take care of themselves. I've been in practice in Los Angeles for eight years with the goal always to get my clients to eat healthy consistently. So I don't subscribe to a specific lifestyle diet. I have clients who follow them, whether it's keto, vegan, vegetarian, gluten- free, but what I found is that if we really focus on what our body biologically needs, those things actually help support and regulate our hunger hormones. They balance our blood sugar. So my clients actually use something called the Fab Four. It's a light structure lifestyle. And I talk about it in my book. And it's just about focusing on four things, like I said, that regulate your blood sugar, that regulate hunger hormones and make you feel really satisfied. So in my research and in my practice, I found that consistency really comes when we aren't really strict with ourselves. It can be tempting to jump on something, you know, an eat and do not eat list and something that promises results. But especially in times like this, when we're also just trying to survive. I've been fielding a number of texts and emails from clients that tell me," This feels like the holidays without the holidays." And they find themselves flying by their pantry door and snacking, which it's normal.

Jody Kohner: Right.

Kelly LeVeque: It's normal. When we eat those highly palatable foods, we have a release of dopamine in the brain. So my response to those texts and emails are always just understanding and having empathy to that because it is a way to self- soothe, but then to remind them that those types of foods, not only are they really highly addictive, but they disregulate blood sugar. So something I explain to my clients is just how blood sugar works. So let's say that we did pop open a bag of chips, because maybe they're delicious and we're getting that dopamine high, and we ate those chips, what ends up happening is we digest those chips and they're mostly carbohydrates. And so what they're going to do is they're going to end up in our bloodstream and that's our blood sugar going up. So the more we eat, the higher our blood sugar goes. And then what happens is our body releases a hormone called insulin and insulin's job is to pick up those chips and find a place in our body to store them. So we store them in our liver, in our muscles, and sometimes our blood sugar stays relatively high because we've overeaten these types of foods. And what happens is, is that spike and crash causes more cravings. And the higher we go and the harder we crash, the more we crave and the harder it is to get off of that blood sugar rollercoaster.

Jody Kohner: So are you telling me that we're trying to flatten the curve?

Kelly LeVeque: We're doing it with the coronavirus and we're trying to do it in our bodies. Let's be honest.

Jody Kohner: Okay. Got it.

Kelly LeVeque: So the way to really do that is to focus on the foods that are slow to digest, that work together to really regulate hunger hormones and elongate that blood sugar curve. And the things that do that are the things that either don't break down to blood sugar. So that's protein and fat. Those are the first two pillars of the Fab Four. And fiber and greens. So these are the vegetables that are what we would call cellular carbohydrates. Cellular carbohydrates are carbohydrates that are wrapped in their fiber cell. These are wholefoods. So you can think of squashes, berries, even sweet potatoes. If you are someone who eats grains, these would be wholegrain rice, and quinoa versus flour, A- cellular products. A- cellular products are anything that's been broken down to a flour. That's your cookies, your cakes, your pastas. Those actually are already really broken down. So because of that flour- based product, they spike your blood sugar faster and higher. And our body's response with insulin is a lot faster as well. So, that rollercoaster really feels like Moctezuma's revenge. It doesn't feel calm and relaxed. So what I would challenge your employees to do, and for anyone listening would be to really think about, well, how can I create balance on my plate? And so the Fab Four helps you do that. It's again, protein, fat, fiber and greens. And this is what I would call a light structure lifestyle. It's a checklist of things that you can feel good about because we want a dopamine hit without the carbohydrates, without the processed carbohydrates, those highly palatable foods, like for example, donuts or chips or something like that. We want that hit that makes us feel good about ourselves. And the way to get consistent with eating healthy is to get that dopamine hit without that. And so we need to celebrate, we need to find a way to feel proud of ourselves. And unfortunately, a lot of us feel really bad about the food choices we make. We find it is a place where we have a lot of guilt and a lot of shame. And unfortunately, that type of behavior, like you sit down, you eat a meal, you are supporting a local restaurant, you order takeout. And then immediately an hour later, you feel this looming guilt. That's not the way that I want you to feel. I want you to find a way to feel really proud of yourself. And so the Fab Four does that. You can look at your plate and say," Oh, I got a lettuce- wrapped burger and a side of broccoli." Okay, well, protein is the burger, right? You probably have some healthy fat on that, like an avocado or a sauce. There's lettuce there, there's some leafy greens. And then you've got a side of broccoli, there's some fiber. So if you can check that off and start to really feel good about yourself, you can get consistent and it can perpetuate that type of eating behavior. And so it doesn't matter if that dinner came with a dessert or a little glass of wine. It's not where we're focusing. So my clients are told to really focus on the things, that little checklist of what does your body need?

Jody Kohner: And do you need to take those Fab Four at every meal, or is the point to break it out over the course of the whole day?

Kelly LeVeque: It isn't a diet. So it's really just a light structure. And it's a checklist of like, hey, these are really good for your body and here's why. Protein, it regulates four of the eight hunger hormones in your body. When we look at research, people who start their day with protein have less cravings for food, they have better satiety. I mean, I can think of a study that I mentioned in my last book where women went from 15% to 18% protein and they lost 11 pounds in 12 weeks and reported less obsessive thoughts about food. So, when we understand how it affects us on a biological level, that really supports people to eat a certain way. So the protein, for example, regulates, if you're... Here's a hunger hormone, neuropeptide Y. Neuropeptide Y is a hormone that makes us crave sugar and carbohydrates, those highly palatable foods. It's regulated with proteins. So for eating protein, that hunger hormone is calmed. So what I'm looking to do is really satisfy you on a biological level so that you aren't feeling that need to fly by your pantry and snack, right? And so what the Fab Four does together is it synergistically works together. So protein is the most satisfying, like I said, it's regulating four of your eight hunger hormones. What fat does is it slows the digestion of your meal. So it's going to elongate your meal. The newest research suggests that eating fewer meals is actually better for our thyroid. It's better for cardiovascular markers. It's better for metabolic markers. So we're looking to lower A1C, glucose, insulin when we're trying to reverse a bad cholesterol ratio. We can do that actually with fewer meals. You'll see intermittent fasting is something that's really popular right now. But the hard part is, is people have a hard time eating fewer meals if they're not biologically satisfied and that meal isn't lasting as long in their bodies.

Jody Kohner: Right. Right.

Kelly LeVeque: So what fat does is it slows the digestion of your meal. It slows that curve so that it lasts longer. We're no longer seeing your blood sugar spike up and crash down at two and a half or three hours. I see when my clients focus on the Fab Four, specifically with breakfast, because that dictates how that curve goes throughout the day is that they can elongate that curve for four to six hours, focus on work, feel fueled and not feel that crash. It's that feeling that I talk to my clients about that 11:00 AM or 10:00 AM, where you're looking at your coworkers, thinking like," What are we post- meeting for lunch?" Or they're already thinking about it. That tells me that they're not really satisfied on a biological level.

Jody Kohner: Just got a good question about breakfast, sorry, just to interject here. There are days when I wake up and I am completely famished and ready for breakfast. And there's days like today when I'm like, I absolutely do not want to eat breakfast. Should I be kind of forcing that anyway to try and help elongate it? Or is it okay to be like, I can't right now?

Kelly LeVeque: Yeah, no. I really suggest my clients lean into the way that they're feeling. My suggestion would be... Intermittent fasting is really popular. So you have some people who are waiting until 02:00 or 03:00 in the afternoon to break fast and have their first meal. I actually work with my clients to do circadian- synced intermittent fasting. So the suggested time that they break their fast is no later than 11:00 AM. And we do that because I don't want them to get to a place where they really are feeling shaky, over hungry because they end up making up for it on the backend. They overeat and they eat late. And we found that two to eight o'clock window is not as successful at lowering triglycerides, lowering A1C, and really seeing those metabolic changes as synching your circadian rhythm to your fasting. So if you're eating in the daylight hours, say you break your fast at 09:00 or 10:00 or 11: 00 AM, and you have breakfast, break fast at that time, then you would just have a six or eight hour window, and then you'd shut it down. So we're finding in research, an earlier dinner is going to lower triglycerides more and lower insulin and blood sugar more than eating late.

Jody Kohner: I always felt I sleep better too, when I eat early.

Kelly LeVeque: You absolutely will sleep better. You have more glymphatic cleansing, which is the lymph nodes for your brain, it's the cleansing that happens in your brain, that removes amyloid plaque. So it's not rocket science. The research really says everything that my grandma told you to do. Eat wholefoods, have breakfast, but have breakfast when you feel like having breakfast. If on some days that's at 7: 00 AM and some days that's at 11:00 AM, you need to listen to that and lean into that. But the most important thing about breakfast is that it's a balanced meal, because let's say for example, you started your day with a croissant or something that was highly palatable and broken down carbohydrates, that's going to cause that blood sugar to spike and crash. And actually we have a cortisol spike that happens in the morning. That's what wakes us up and makes us feel good. Our cortisol is up in the morning and it's declined at night when melatonin rises to help us sleep. And what happens is, is that spike of cortisol [ inaudible 00:13: 21 ], actually it primes us for storing fat. We really want to support our body's natural homeostasis, which is a low flowing curve. And so protein satisfies us. It doesn't break down the blood sugar. Fat slows the digestion of that meal. And then when you add fiber and leafy greens, you're physically stretching your stomach. And so there's a hunger hormone called ghrelin, which is one of the strongest hormones in your body. And it screams at you to eat. I call it the gorilla hormone. It's like, we're just a gorilla. We're grazing. We want all the food. And so ghrelin is regulated by the physical stretching of your stomach. So when people are drinking just like a green juice for breakfast or using a protein bar, something that's not going to create physical weight in their stomach, they may not feel the benefits and the hunger calming effects of eating wholefoods. The benefits of fiber and greens, I mean, they go on and on and on because fiber and greens, we're talking about vegetables deep in color. We're talking about the fiber that feeds your microbes and your gut. You're up in San Francisco, there's some amazing studies coming out of Stanford based on the proliferation of those microbes and the daily ingestion of fiber. It's within an hour or 90 minutes, that those microbes are multiplying at a very high rate. And if we aren't eating fiber and we aren't eating plant foods, we actually see the permanent die- off of strains of microbes in our body. That then if you have children, you're not passing those microbes onto your kids. So we're seeing that we may have the quantity, but strains are actually lowering. And when we talk about your immunity, your mental health, so many things, your ability to produce short chain fatty acids and keep your brain sharp, like butyrate, that's coming from our microbes. So I'm all about my clients getting consistent and I find that really strict diets... And maybe I am like, intermittent fasting are these things. I call them tools. They don't become something where it's, this is a lifestyle you're going to live until you're 90 years old. Right? You say like, okay, well, what's the science behind this tool and how can I use it to feel my best? And maybe I can pepper it in. Maybe I can finish eating dinner early one night. Maybe I can lean into eating a little bit lower carb and focusing on fat for fuel so I could become metabolically flexible. But in that case, I wouldn't make cheese taco shells. I mean, you really want to focus on what has research told us is the healthiest diets. The Mediterranean diet wins over and over and over again. I mean, it's those healthy omega- 3 fatty acids. It's fat- rich proteins. It's those deep leafy green vegetables. I mean just adding salad greens to your plate. There's an amazing study that shows people who add one to two cups of leafy greens to their plate, their brains perform 11 years younger.

Jody Kohner: Well, I'll take 11 years off any day, any part of the body. It's great.

Kelly LeVeque: It's great. And so the reason why I love the Fab Four is because you don't have to be perfect. It's about feeling good about what you put on your plate. And if you're out at a restaurant or you're ordering takeout, because you're supporting a local restaurant or you're making dinner and you decide, yeah, I'm going to make that side of Brussels sprouts or we're going to order their artichoke starter because that's a great way to add fiber, that's a great way to add leafy greens, that's when you get to pat yourself on the back and go like," I'm proud of myself. Let's do that again." And that creates that consistency and momentum. And I would say the last thing I'd have to say is unhealthy fat. There's amazing studies that show the synergy that healthy fat has with vegetables, specifically, they are what I call the salad studies. There was a study comparing fat- free dressing and a whole- fat dressing with olive oil. And it was looking at specific phytochemicals, lutein and zeaxanthin, these are the most protective antioxidants in the brain. So, for brain health. And they found that when you are using a whole- fat dressing, they're absorbing sometimes 15 times the amount of phytochemicals, versus if you're using a fat- free dressing, they found that there was no absorption of those phytochemicals. So that, and then another study with avocado showed the exact same things. Those phytochemicals of fat soluble, all your vitamins, D, E, A and K are all fat- soluble vitamins. If you've ever been told that you are vitamin D deficient, just make sure that you're adding those healthy fats, like olive oil and avocado to your plate, because that's how you're going to absorb those beautiful nutrients that are there for our body's protection.

Jody Kohner: I love it. So I have a couple of questions for you then.

Kelly LeVeque: Okay.

Jody Kohner: I have to jump in here while I have you. So my first one is that I have really found a lot of joy in cooking. Part of that experience is getting to go to the store and feel the vegetables and get all the good stuff. And honestly, Kelly, the whole shopping experience is just becoming a huge bummer, right? I got to wear a mask, I got to wait in line. I have anxiety in the stores, the stuff I want. I've planned out all my meals and then the ingredients aren't there. And I'm just wondering if you have any suggestions for how to reframe this? How to find joy and, I guess the adventure of shopping right now?

Kelly LeVeque: Yeah. So what I've been recommending to my clients, you guys are a tech company, so you'll appreciate this, is really to rely on the tech companies that can support you in this time. So a couple of companies that I'm leaning on right now are ButcherBox. So I get all of my grass- fed proteins from ButcherBox. There's a company called Thrive Market, if you've heard of Thrive. Thrive is an online marketplace and there's a yearly membership, but they have a meat program. It's basically a healthy grocery store. Think about Whole Foods meets Costco online. So you're saving a lot of money and you're getting really healthy options. So what I try to do is get online and get as many of my staples, at least my proteins and all of my pantry goods on those type of platforms. That way, when I'm going to the grocery store, I'm really focusing on produce and leaning into what is available and then trying to get creative, because what ends up happening is if I have a freezer full of wild salmon, a skirt steak, some chicken breasts, and those are all there, and I get to the grocery store and maybe the things that I have aren't there, just bringing home whatever I think could challenge myself to think outside the box and try something new. And then getting home and defrosting what might pair best with that has been my approach when I don't find anything that I plan to make. And then when you do have something that you love and you see that it's there, maybe avocados, don't forget to use your freezer so you can-

Jody Kohner: You can freeze avocados?

Kelly LeVeque: You can. And that's something I do for all of my... I created a smoothie formula. It's a way for clients to know how to create a blood sugar balancing smoothie. And it has protein, fat, fiber and greens in it. So you could use whatever ingredients fall in those categories for you. And it's a great way to really understand how to balance blood sugar and feel satisfied. But for example, I'll buy a bag of those avocados. That's something I wouldn't do in the past.

Jody Kohner: Right. Yeah.

Kelly LeVeque: I'd normally buy one or two, but now I'll buy a bag of those avocados. I'll open them up. I'll quarter them, put a little water and lemon juice on them and freeze them in a freezer bag. And then I'm adding a quarter of an avocado to my smoothie when it's frozen. And I'm also leaning on those frozen produce for all of my smoothies. So I'm using frozen kale, frozen spinach, what your grandma would buy for creamed spinach or something like that. So I'm not adding ice to my smoothies now. I can make one of my breakfast smoothies using complete pantry and freezer ingredients without ever needing anything perishable. And it's all produce- based and [crosstalk 00:20:39].

Jody Kohner: That is a great tip. I never knew you could freeze some of that stuff. I love that. Okay. My next question is you mentioned consistency and trying to get at that. And a little personal, true story here is I've become a bit addicted to MyFitnessPal app. It served a great purpose, but I sort of have this love- hate relationship with it that I'm constantly counting calories. And I feel like it's a good thing in this environment because it's some sort of a warning sign like, you're there, you've already tapped out. But on the other hand, I don't know that calorie counting is really sustainable for the long term. So what do you do with a calorie- counting junkie like myself?

Kelly LeVeque: So I actually coach my clients not to use calorie counters. I know it's really tempting, but hormones are queen. So the hormones you're releasing in your body are really going to dictate your metabolic rate and how you're responding to foods. So I'll give you an example. Let's say that you did start your day with a bagel or a croissant and you counted those calories because the back of the box said, whatever it did, right? And you're like, okay, well, I'm still under my calories. Well, here's the problem with that is that bagel ends up in your mouth. You digest it and it ends up in your bloodstream and you release insulin. Well, what insulin does is insulin is a storage hormone. It tells your body to store the nutrients that are in your bloodstream in your cells. And what it does is it also releases hormone sensitive lipase and lipoprotein lipase, which are two enzymes that tell your fat cells to suck up fat and hold on to it. So what's different about that versus inaudible is that you're not getting that same release of insulin. You're not getting that same hormone cascade and messengers. So when we do look at the diets that lower process carbohydrates, that's going to lower the amount of insulin our body produces. It's going to actually allow for more fat burning. So what I suggest my clients do is actually use a different app. It's called Cronometer. So Cronometer-

Jody Kohner: Okay. Cronometer?

Kelly LeVeque: Yeah. It looks like a little... I don't know if you can see that. It's an apple.

Jody Kohner: Oh, yeah, the little apple.

Kelly LeVeque: An apple with a little bull's- eye. And so what that is actually going to do is actually going to change your mindset. So I'm all about changing to a positive mindset and a positive mindset, instead of trying not to hit your calorie goal, it's actually different. What it's going to do is it's going to tell you the nutrients in your food. It's going to tell you how much vitamin D you're getting, how much vitamin K you're getting, healthy fats. And it sets goals to hit instead of avoid hitting. And that's a different mindset. So it really is telling you the nutrient levels in your food. So calories work. Can you count calories and know your resting metabolic rate and maybe ditch a pound or two? Maybe. But what we're talking about, what I think is way more important is body composition and body composition is dictated by hormones, is dictated by protein intake and how much you work out. So I think if you can use healthy tools, focusing on breaking your fast correctly, and maybe finishing dinner at 6: 00 PM and not eating after that. And if you feel like something, having a cup of tea. If you could focus on moving your body for 12 minutes a day minimum, research tells us that at 12 minutes, we are lowering triglycerides and we're lowering glucose and we're increasing insulin sensitivity. It takes that few minutes. And if it's around a meal where you may have decided like, I'm making pasta tonight, well, can you move your body for 12 minutes before you eat that pasta? Then your muscles are going to be primed to suck up that sugar.

Jody Kohner: And that's a pretty good motivation to get to eat the pasta.

Kelly LeVeque: Right. The thing is, is calories are a safety for people. It feels safe. It feels controlling-

Jody Kohner: It is controlling, yeah. You feel like you're controlling it.

Kelly LeVeque: Yeah. You don't have to know the science to understand it. You can just throw it in and understand, okay, I'm not going over my allotment. But I would lean into what's on your plate, not what you're removing from your plate to stay under your caloric restrictions.

Jody Kohner: That would be lovely. You've given me a new app that I can just sort of transition-

Kelly LeVeque: For my app queen.

Jody Kohner: Yeah, that's great.

Kelly LeVeque: That's how I know I have clients who love those things.

Jody Kohner: That's great.

Kelly LeVeque: That'll help.

Jody Kohner: That's excellent. Catherine, do we have any other questions or do I get to keep peppering her with mine?

Catherine: Well, you were just talking about carbs. So for those who are listening, who are used to a very card- based breakfast, what do you suggest they do? Or what is one ideal breakfast you have that's easy for them to move away from their card- based breakfast to have something tasty and quick, and easily to prep in the morning?

Kelly LeVeque: I have two little tips. The first tip would be my Fab Four Smoothie. I have 50 recipes in my first book and 50 recipes in my second book, but I have recipes that taste like snickerdoodle cookie, peanut butter cup, really decadent dessert flavors. So you start with a protein powder of choice. So if you're being a vegetarian, that might be a pea protein. If you lean carnivore, you might use a grass- fed beef or a bone broth protein or a collagen, and then you build from there. So if it's a chocolate protein, then you add almond butter as your healthy fat. So there's your protein and your fat. Then you want a fiber, so little chia or flax. And then a little handful of leafy greens. If you have a really good tasting protein powder, you're not going to taste that blended up with unsweetened coconut or almond milk. And you have a decadent dessert- based breakfast in under two minutes flat, that's going to regulate hunger hormones. So research says that 20 grams of protein is what it takes for us to really get rid of those cravings between 02:00 and 04: 00 in the afternoon. So majority of my clients, sometimes they'll just start with a Fab Four Smoothie. I'll teach them what it feels like to feel balanced and full. And then they'll come back to me for more science and understanding. And then the second thing, if someone normally starts their day with say, a grain bowl, like a cream of wheat or an oatmeal, I have a triple- seed warm pudding. So it's chia seeds, flax meal, and hemp hearts. And I just did a video on my Instagram @ bewellbykelly about how to make this. So you do it just like a cream of wheat or an oatmeal, and in three minutes flat, it's gelatinous and warm. And then instead of adding sugar or any sweetener, like a maple syrup or a cinnamon, we take the protein that they love, like a vanilla collagen protein, plop it in 20 grams, mix it up. And then you're getting 20 grams of protein. And all of that is, is fiber. It is never going to take you on a blood sugar rollercoaster. It elongates your curve. So a lot of my clients who are used to that oatmeal, warm, delicious type of a bowl, they switched to this and they don't look back.

Jody Kohner: Does your son bash- eat that? Because I've got two oatmeal- eating kids that I would love to switch them over to it.

Kelly LeVeque: He does.

Jody Kohner: He does, okay.

Kelly LeVeque: Yes, he does. So whenever I'm making it for him, sometimes I'll add the protein powder. And for him I'll use a bone broth protein powder because that is just bone broth that's been dehydrated. There's no chemical extraction there. So, that's a great way to go.

Catherine: So the idea of cheat days, good or bad?

Kelly LeVeque: So I tell my clients to not think of anything like a cheat, to think of it as a choice, because what a cheat does, a cheat day sometimes it turns into a cheat week. And that can be something that's a problem. And what it is, is it's a choice. You're making a cognizant choice to eat this food. And then when we lean into, okay, well, what is it that you love? You love a cheeseburger with French fries. Well, we're home in quarantine. How can you make your best burger elevated to pick the most high quality nutrient- dense ingredients? So I'm using this example because my friend just had a burger crawl birthday party via Zoom on Friday, we all had to make our own burger. And I really leaned into 100% pasture- raised beef. I was using a keto- style bun, which is, this is the benefit of the keto diet right now or the paleo diet. There are specific grain- free products that are lower in carbohydrates. They're using flowers like coconut flour and almond flour. And that's not going to have that aggressive spike that say even a gluten- free rice flour type of a product would have in your body. I think the labels are sometimes distracting from the fact that you really just got to look at the ingredients, what's in there and from the nutrition facts, how high am I going to go and how hard am I going to crash? So I tell people to go check that out because that's what I would do is really start to say like, well, what is it that I love and what is it that I crave and how can I personally elevate that with healthier ingredients.

Jody Kohner: That's great. Thank you so much for joining us. This has been a power- packed half hour. I love it.

Kelly LeVeque: I'm so glad.

Jody Kohner: It's been fantastic. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Everyone, now you've got some great tips to get your week off to a fantastic start. So just be happy, be healthy and be well, and we'll see you next time.

Michael Rivo: Rachel, that was great. I got so much out of that conversation. I'm really going to be thinking about protein, fiber, fats and greens and how they work together.

Rachel Levin: Yeah, I mean, I did too. And unfortunately, I guess this means I'm not going to be able to give you that Christmas gift that I'd gotten.

Michael Rivo: What did you have planned?

Rachel Levin: I know you love In- N- Out Burgers and I got you just a great gift certificate, but I don't think that's going to work.

Michael Rivo: I will use the In-N- Out gift certificate. And I think I can use some of these techniques where we'll put that burger inside of a lettuce wrap-

Rachel Levin: Oh, there you go.

Michael Rivo: Put a little grilled onion on that, have a glass of water instead of my extra large Coke. And we'll be all set.

Rachel Levin: The Fab Four right there.

Michael Rivo: I'm not sure that's what I'm going to do every day. But I think, per this conversation, take each meal at a time. Don't beat yourself up and know that if you think about the big ideas around, am I getting protein, fiber, fats and greens throughout the day and eating that way, then there's a whole world of food that you can eat. You can eat anything.

Rachel Levin: Yeah. And I think the best part is she talks about how it essentially ends those cravings because that's what gets me. I feel like, if I have one chip, I just want the whole bag. So basically what she's saying is focus on these other food groups, pile up the veggies, get as many colors as you can on your plate. And then you might pass that bag of Doritos and not even want to open it up.

Michael Rivo: Exactly. It's all about mindfulness in eating.

Rachel Levin: That's right.

Michael Rivo: And a mindfulness practice around how we live our whole lives. And that's what the Be Well Together series is all about. And we're hoping that by bringing this to our audience, that everybody can take advantage of these mindfulness techniques.

Rachel Levin: Yep. Good way to end the year and start a new one.

Michael Rivo: All good stuff. Rachel, thank you for joining today.

Rachel Levin: Great to be here, Michael.

Michael Rivo: Thanks everybody for listening. I'm Michael Rebo from Salesforce Studios.