A Discussion on COVID-19 and Race in America with Van Jones, Dr. Camara Jones, Ellen McGirt, and Ebony Beckwith

Michael Rivo: From Salesforce Studios, this is Blazing Trails.

Michael Rivo: Welcome back to Blazing Trails. I'm Michael Rivo from Salesforce Studios. A global pandemic does not discriminate, so why is it disproportionately affecting some groups more than others? In today's round table style episode, we're joined by CEO of Reform Alliance and CNN contributor, Van Jones, family physician and epidemiologist, Dr. Camara Jones, and senior editor at fortune Ellen McGirt, so discuss the impact of COVID- 19 on African American and minority communities. Our guests discuss how this inequality isn't the result of a biased disease, it's the result of systematic inequalities in our economic, education, and healthcare systems. They offer insights into how business leaders can work to level the playing field by prioritizing diversity as they reimagine the workplace in a COVID world. And now, I'll hand it over to our host, Ebony Beckwith.

Ebony Beckwith: As I've watched this crisis unfold, I've been filled with so many emotions and just as many questions. Why does this continue to happen to us? How do we make it stop? And really, what can I do to make real change? And in order to get to these answers, we have to talk about the hard stuff, and we really have to speak the truth, which is exactly what we're going to do today. So when we thought about bringing you this curated hour, what I really wanted to do was bring you the voices of experts that I trust the most in the midst of this chaos and this crisis, so I am very excited to be joined by the very powerful voices of Dr. Camara Jones, Ellen McGirt, and Van Jones. Welcome to you all. Thank you so much for being here. And really, thank you for being my voices of truth amidst all of this. Now I know you all have a lot to say, so we're going to dive right in and get started. Dr. Jones, I really wanted to start with you. For many years, you have been helping this nation really name racism. And you've been doing it by telling powerful stories, allegories and parables. And I was wondering if there's a short one that you'd be able to share with us today.

Dr. Camara Jones: Oh, thank you, Ebony, I would love to because I think it's important for all of us to name racism and to recognize that it's not only foundational in our nation's history, but it's alive and well, and it's revealed in all of its darkness by this COVID- 19 pandemic. But it's also revealed in our infant mortality, maternal mortality, and the like. So the story that I want to share is one that I share if I only have just a few minutes to help people understand that racism exists, and how it operates, even people whose whole life experience has been one that has convinced them that this is the land of equal opportunity. This story, which I call Dual Reality, A Restaurant Saga, is actually based on a real life experience that I had when I was a first year medical student, so let me tell you what I lived through. I was very studious, of course, as a first year medical student. So one Saturday, I was home studying, and some friends came over, and they joined me. And we were studying long and hard, and it got late. We got hungry, and I had no food in the apartment, which was typical, so my friends understood. And they were like, " Okay, Camara, no problem. Let's go into town and find something to eat." So we go into town and we find a restaurant, and we walk in and we sit down. And the menus are presented. And we order our food, and the food is served. And there we are, so you're like, " That's supposed to tell me something about racism?" Well, no. Hold on. Hold on. As I sat there eating with my friends, I looked across the room and I noticed a sign that was a startling revelation to me about racism. So now I've intrigued you, and you're like, " Dr. Jones, what did the sign say?" Well, what did the sign say? The sign said, " Open." So now I know I've lost many of you. So let me recap. Here we are sitting in a restaurant eating. I look across the room, I see a sign that says, " Open." And if I hadn't thought anything more about it, I would've assumed that other hungry people could walk in, sit down, order their food and eat. But because I knew something about the two sided nature of those signs, I recognized that now because of the hour, the restaurant was indeed closed, and that other hungry people just a few feet away from me, but on the other side of the sign, would not be able to come in, sit down, order their food, and eat. And that is when I understood how racism structures open, closed signs in our society, that racism structures, if you will, a dual reality. And for those who are inside the restaurant sitting at the table of opportunity eating, and they look up and they see a sign that says, " Open," they don't even recognize that there's a two sided sign going on because it's difficult for any of us to recognize a system of inequity that privileges us. So for example, it's difficult for men to recognize male privilege and sexism. It's difficult for white Americans to recognize white privilege and racism. It's actually difficult for all Americans to recognize our American privilege in the global context. But those on the outside, those who are looking at closed, they are very well aware that there's a two sided sign going on because it proclaims closed to them, but they can look through the window and see people inside eating. So back inside the restaurant, to those who ask, " Is there really a two sided sign? Does racism really exist?" I say, " I know it's hard for you to know when you only see open, in fact, that's part of your privilege not to have to know. But once you do know, you can choose to act." So it's not a scary thing to name racism, it's actually an empowering thing. It doesn't even compel you to act, but it does equip you to act, so that if you care about those on the other side of the sign, which is an if, but if you do, you could even talk to the restaurant owner, who is after all inside with you, and you could say, " Restaurant owner, there are hungry people outside. Why don't you open the door again? Let them come in. You will make more money." And oh, the conversations we could have. Or maybe what you'll do is pass food through the window, or try to tear down that sign, or break through that door. But at least what you won't be doing is sitting back saying, " Huh, wonder why those people don't just come on in and sit down and eat," because you'll understand something about the two sided nature of that sign. So I share this story any time I'm trying to help people understand that racism is structuring two sided or multi sided signs in our society, and even though you may have been born inside the restaurant, there are ways for you to know about the two side nature of that sign. I've actually started three hour conversations with community groups when I just asked the question: How could people born inside the restaurant know something about the two sided nature of that sign? I will just go back to you, Ebony, from this. But I would love at some later point to define racism. I don't know if you want to just give a one sentence definition of racism now since I've used the word so many times. Would that be appropriate?

Ebony Beckwith: Just briefly, yeah, that'd be great.

Dr. Camara Jones: Okay. So here's my one sentence, and then we can all go deep on this. I define racism as a system of structuring opportunity and of assigning value based on the social interpretation of how one looks, which is what we call race, that unfairly disadvantages some individuals and communities, unfairly advantages other individuals and communities, and saps the strength of the whole society through the waste of human resources.

Ebony Beckwith: Thank you, Dr. Jones. I want to pick up on that disadvantage. And Van, I'm going to throw it over to you. As we see death tolls rising in communities of color, why are African Americans and other communities of color so particularly vulnerable to COVID- 19?

Van Jones: We have a pandemic that is jumping on top of multiple existing epidemics, including an epidemic of poverty, bad housing, and bad jobs, as well as epidemics of hypertension, obesity, diabetes and others. And I think what this virus is trying to teach us is something about wellness and oneness. That's what I think this virus is here to teach us, wellness and oneness. We don't just have sick people. We have sick systems that have allowed certain kinds of disadvantage, as the doctor said, to accumulate on the other side of that door. But we didn't care so much because of this idea, well, those people are over there. What's happened is as these sick systems have allowed the sicknesses to accumulate in some communities and not others, the virus comes and it has no respect for any of these divisions. It does not respect race. It does not respect income. It does not respect who you voted for. It just jumps from body, to body, to body, to body. And it turns out that some of the people that may be the mainstream, just saw as maybe apps with feet under them, just all I've got to do is just punch my phone and service is going to show up, products are going to. I don't have to worry about: Did that worker have enough money to live and get housing? Could that worker who's in that warehouse see a doctor if he or she got sick? I don't have to worry about that. I'm just going to punch my apps and go on. Well, it turns out that it matters a great deal whether or not the people who are on the other side of that door are well in a pandemic. And so what I would say is simply this. We have some sick systems that need to be healed, as well as sick people. And there's a great opportunity here because once you realize that we are all in this together, you have to have a movement that can jump from heart, to heart, to heart, to heart, just as aggressively and just as exponentially as this virus goes from body, to body, to body. And you start running into barriers. Well, why is it hard for us to even understand what's going on, on the other side of the door that doctor was describing? We haven't seen it as urgent. It's been optional. It's been something you might want to do. Now when is it something we've got to do because this virus is insisting upon it. So let me just say one more thing about this. When you look at where African Americans work and live, it shouldn't surprise you at all. Those so- called essential jobs are disproportionately for African Americans and people of color. Look who's bringing you those packages, almost always people of color. When you go into those grocery stores, look who's standing around exposed, almost always people of color, disproportionately. So when we have an epidemic of bad jobs, risky jobs, jobs where we don't get paid very much, and where we're exposed now to a lot of peril, you can't be surprised that our numbers are high. So when you start saying, " Well, look, we want a minimum wage to go up," that doesn't sound too radical now. You couldn't pay anybody listening to this$ 15 an hour to stand in those grocery stores and be exposed to this virus. So when they say they want a raise, a living wage, suddenly that makes a lot more sense. When communities say, " We want healthcare for everybody," doesn't sound crazy now. Everybody who's sick should see a doctor. Nobody thinks that's crazy anymore. So some of the wisdom that was coming up out of these communities of pain about work about health, about help, would seem so radical and seem to weird, now suddenly makes common sense. So there's an opportunity to learn from the people on the other side of that door, the wisdom that's been there, the requests that have been there. And I hope this conversation will lead toward that.

Ebony Beckwith: Thanks, Van. We're going to talk about those deep seated inequalities in a second. But Ellen, I want to go back to when this first started. And when everything started to first heat up, there were a lot of rumors and conspiracy theories going around that African Americans and minorities were" safe" from COVID-19. Do you think that misinformation led us where we are today?

Ellen McGirt: It is such an important question for a variety of reasons, and I do want to talk about all of that. I would like to be considered an honorary Jones though today. I'm the only one without the last name. And I'm feeling such a spirit of wellness and oneness right now. So please, I am Ellen McGirt Jones today for this brief moment. But I've been thinking about this rumors and misinformation piece because it's important to me for a bunch of levels. First of all, my answer is no, but with lots and lots of lots of caveats. Rumors and misinformation are terrible for absolutely everybody. And it's interrupted political discourse here and around the world. It's disrupted elections, real uprisings in the street. And to use extreme example, genocide, we're talking about the inaudible, people in Myanmar with misinformation fueled extensively by Facebook and What's App, and of course, even the parents of children who were murdered in Sandy Hook. On a daily basis, they are harassed by people who believe that was not true. So misinformation is a problem for absolutely everybody. And I wanted to acknowledge the deaths of many of the pastors in some of the African American churches, particularly the Church of God and Christ, which is the biggest African American Pentecostal congregations. It is some of whom were not socially distancing, but some of whom were. It's just a tragedy that I think we're still going to be parsing for a very long time. But Ebony, here's my long answer. If we were to truly indulge the idea of misinformation and rumors, or even weaponized information as the primary cause of the disparate impact of this disease on communities of color, and I'm also speaking about black communities, Latin X communities, and indigenous communities. We are in tremendous risk to miss the opportunity that my brother and sister Jones also highlighted, which is to breeze by the deep seated systemic racism that actually has gotten us to this moment right now. And the same is true with, well, we had preexisting conditions. Once we stop there, then we are not examining the racist ideas that go along with that, that question our character, our work ethic, our willingness, our intelligence, our inability not to become, to not ward of diseases. It's this myth, these racist myths about black characters and black bodies. We're dying because we've been shut out of a healthcare system that welcomes and understands us and meets our needs for generations. We are dying because we've been locked out of credit markets that have given us access to clean and affordable homes. Businesses, look what's happening with PPP. It's like the New Deal all over again. We're dying because we get disproportionate punishment in schools and are shunted out at a very early age. We're dying because we're over- represented in the criminal justice system, harassed daily on the streets. We are dying because COVID words, I want to talk corporate now, like Yale and golf have become long standing proxies for talent. It's why we have under- representation all throughout the workforce. So ultimately, I want to address all misinformation. I want to get good, actionable information about health, wellness, and oneness, and what it would take to heal society right now to everybody. But we're actually dying because we haven't taken the time to examine and dismantle the racist ideas that are built into every support beam in every system we have ever had.

Ebony Beckwith: Dr. Jones, I feel like this is a perfect segue over to you. Would you like to add anything?

Dr. Camara Jones: Oh, my God, yes. Preach, preach. We are preaching today. So yes, and the big problem in our country is even though we are describing how racism has been foundational in our nation's history and continues to have very profound impacts on the health and wellbeing of the nation, this nation for the most part is in staunch denial of the continued existence of racism. And so I've been thinking about why that is. And I want to just give you the first three out of seven ideas I have about things in our society, kind of the cultural norms of our society, that allow people to drift back into what I describe as the somnolence, the slumber of racism denial. And I think our job, I agree with you, Van, our job right now is to now allow that to happen. I agree with you, Ellen. We have to stay on this. We cannot allow people to deny racism. But here are the three things that we'll have to address in order to get there. The first is that I this country, we are so narrowly focused on the individual that systems and structures seem to be invisible or irrelevant. The second is that we as a nation are ahistorical. We act as if the present were disconnected from the past, and as if the current distribution of advantage and disadvantage that we've been describing is just a happenstance. And also, when you're ahistorical, you might be born, things are this way. You might think that they've always been that way, and always have to be that way. So being ahistorical also limits our ideas about how systems and structures can change. The third of these what I call values based barriers to achieving health equity is our endorsement of the myth of meritocracy, the story that goes something like this. If you work hard, you will make it. Okay, so now hear me on this. I give you that most people who have made it have worked hard, although not everybody who has made it has worked hard. And we have very prominent examples of that right now in our country. But just as I acknowledge that most people who have made it have worked hard, there are many, many, many other people working just as hard or harder, who will never make it because of an uneven playing field, which has been structured and which is being perpetuated and supported by racism, sexism, hetero, sex, and all of these systems of structured inequity. And to the extent that we deny racism, which is like most people these days, we are endorsing the myth of meritocracy. We're saying those people were lazy, or stupid, or superstitious, or didn't try, all of those things that, Ellen, that you were talking against, that we shouldn't go into the myth area too much. So what I want to say is that we must name racism. It's good to talk about race. It's good to talk about disparities, implicit bias. There's lots of good things to talk about. But if we talk about all those things and never say the word racism, the ism piece is the important piece, that's the system piece, then we, if we never say racism in the context of widespread denial, we are complicit with that denial.

Ebony Beckwith: Van, I want you to pick up on that system piece, especially because in a recent post for CNN, you mentioned that in order for us to move forward, not only do the systems need to change, but we need to change. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Van Jones: Well, look, 90% of this problem is a structural and systemic problem. In other words, the biggest, what a pandemic does, or what a plague does, is it actually reveals the fault lines that were already there and it makes them worse. But it tends to crack the society along the existing fault lines. And so the biggest correlations here have to do with wealth. African Americans, Latinos, Native Americans and other disfavored minorities ain't got as much money. And that turns out to be fatal in a pandemic because you wind up living in close quarters. I often joke, I say, " Wealthy people have been socially isolating." They have gated communities. They've got big mansions with one person in them. They're already, they've kind of socially... That's the part of being wealthy, you get to socially isolate. When you're not wealthy, you can't socially isolate. You tend to live in smaller homes with more intergenerational families. Often, if you get really poor, housing projects, homeless shelters, women's shelters, jails, prisons, detention centers, Native American reservations. Hard to socially isolate when you're poor, and so the virus moves much more quickly. Again, working in jobs, where you don't have good healthcare. Even when you have good healthcare, sometimes you go to the doctor, the doctor treats you differently than someone who looks different. That's been shown in study after study, a great, great heartbreak within the medical community. And so most of this, 90% of it is structural and systemic and we can never let go of that. And then there's probably a 5% or 10% variable though, where we have to know the government's not going to come and save us, necessarily. And there can be better choices. We do need to... I have high blood pressure. I've just been popping pills for my high blood pressure for years. I'm now changing my diet because I actually want to get off of the pharmaceuticals and just be a healthier person. I think we can raise that banner as well, but it cannot be done at the expense of saying, " We have these bigger structural issues as well." So I'm a both/ and on, let's everybody be healthier. Frankly, Americans on a whole are much less healthy on the whole than our rich country counterparts. I mean, I knew when I saw the numbers coming out of China that it was only old people in China dying, and mainly old people in Italy dying, I said, " That's not going to be true in America." Because the average, stereotypically, the average person in China who's 35 years old, probably pretty healthy. The average person in Italy, 35 years old with that Mediterranean diet, probably pretty healthy. You get to the United States, the average 35 year old person is not as healthy. So I knew our numbers were going to be worse in terms of younger and younger people. And then in the African American community, because of all the things we've discussed, you have people dying in their 50s, in their 40s, in their 30s, and in their 20s because of this matrix of epidemics now being pushed down on by this pandemic. So it's an, I'm a both/ and, but it's really big on the structure, but also there are changes anybody in America can be making to be healthy.

Ebony Beckwith: So let's go back to those deep seated inequalities in this country, and in some ways how this pandemic has revived segregation in terms of access to certain good and services. Dr. Jones, I would love for you to start the conversation there.

Dr. Camara Jones: So the biggest segregation there has been in terms of the pandemic is segregation of access to tests and to safe places to isolate. So I don't know if that's the vein that you wanted to go to. But in the actual response to the pandemic, we have been guiding our responses as if, as Van said, that if you have a positive test, if you are lucky enough to be connected to a doctor who can then prescribe a test for you, which is still needed in some places, or you're lucky enough for them to give you a test, but they say, " Oh, you're not that sick," that you can go and isolate without infecting all the rest of your family. Right? So I guess what's happening now is that some people are able to safely shelter in place, and some people are even able to safely isolate in place without infecting other people. And then others of us are not. We're the essential workforce being forced with these meat packing plants, that poultry plants in Virginia, the pig plants. I don't eat meat, so I don't know what you call them. But all of these meat packing plants, where the president is going to have an executive order forcing them to stay open and forcing people to go to work. It's a terrible thing. It's as if we are really seen to be disposable people in the service of profit and in the service, apparently of eating meat. So that's all I want to say about that right now.

Ebony Beckwith: Okay. Van, Ellen, anything to add before I move us on? Want to talk about reopening the country. Ellen, I saw your hand. Go ahead.

Ellen McGirt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted to talk a little bit about what I think corporate America can do. Do you want to do that in the opening the company? Yeah. It's this idea that people we used to ignore suddenly became essential workers, and now are hostages and to this big system. It's a pretty intense thing. And I've been noodling on what I thought, speaking corporate again, corporate America can and should be doing about it. And I have a couple of things that I think might be useful fodder for future conversations. One is use their people analytic skills and actually survey the people that work with them, employees, customers, vendors, community members, to figure out exactly what's happening right now and how it's affected their lives because we're just not getting good data that we can trust other places. And that means really granular things. Who feels safer at work than at home? Who has inadequate access to technology and wifi? Who lives in a food insecure neighborhood? Whose mother died alone? You know? Who is worried that their kid's entire education has just been derailed? And who is not wrong? We're struggling to get all this data together, and if we want to wrap our arms around the inequities and take action on them, corporate America has a huge role to play, if and only if, they collect and share this data. It's not something that people typically do very much. We can't even get demographic, diversity demographic from more than 16% of the Fortune 500. But sharing this data and letting scientists look at it, and letting social organizations look at it, let policy makers, let voters look at this information. We can really put a shape to this, which leads me to number two, which, Ebony, I know you know this is my passion, now is the time to make diversity and inclusion efforts central to this work. Not only did we lose tremendous momentum in 2008 recession, I mean, our talent pipelines today reflect that all of those initiatives went by the wayside back then. Now is to the time to defang your office of equality if you were lucky enough and smart enough to put one together, if you were smart enough to put together a chief diversity office. Now is the time to get them in the bubble, next to the CEO, next to the board, next to decision makers, because the workplace we're about to walk into, that we're about to ramp up, is going to look very, very, very different. People are going to come in, in different conditions, with different ideas about how they're going to be safe at work, whether they're actual office workers, or if they're first line essential workers who are now decimated. This is an extinction level event for those communities, for every type of worker that my brother, Van, and my sister, Camara just named. And we need to think about how we're going to bring those communities back online safety, what a creative benefit package looks like. Anybody who thinks this working at home experiment's been good for people with children, particularly working women, is nuts. The backsliding on women's achievement at work has been just bonkers.

Van Jones: Let it preach.

Ellen McGirt: Anybody, your DNI professionals, no Van, you are right there with me, my brother. And I can't wait to buy your lifestyle book because I can tell there's one coming. You need these diversity and inclusion professionals next to the CEO. You need your offices of equality right there because we cannot rebuild this work quickly without that. And I would say, I'm throwing this out, Ebony, I haven't really thought this through as an actual call to action. But if we're not taking seriously voting rights for everybody, and taking a stand, we're never going to see the society that we want. I tell you, eight years ago, six years ago, if anybody had said there would be an amicus brief or a collective letter respecting gender rights and public bathrooms, I would've laughed. Now I think, " Why can't we get together some sort of movement to make sure that low wage workers and hourly workers can get to the polls safely?" Why aren't we weighing in and analyzing these big issues because I promise you from a corporate point of view, the Jackie Robinson, who's now waiting alone in the deep end of the high potential pool, his, her, their family is going to risk their lives and their livelihood to get to the polls in November. And that's just nuts. And we have a role to play in making sure that doesn't happen.

Ebony Beckwith: Van and Dr. Jones, I would love for you to weigh in. Clearly, things have to change. And I want to pick up on that threat that Ellen had. What role do businesses play in this next normal?

Dr. Camara Jones: I would like to start there, if I may, Van.

Van Jones: Okay. As long as I get time, go ahead.

Dr. Camara Jones: You go. You go. You go, Van.

Van Jones: Go ahead. I'm just joking. Go ahead.

Dr. Camara Jones: Okay. So I think that a lot of what you were saying, Ellen, presupposed that we kept some of the structures the same. And I just want to put out there just a challenge. Do we need the diversity people moving next to the CEO? Or do we need cooperatives? Do we need a whole new thing? Do we need universal basic income, for example? Are the things, when we reimagine, is it going to be that our re- imagining is a reframing, so now we're not talking about the glass half empty, we're going to talk about the glass half full. Or is the re- imagining going to fill up the glass? I mean, that's how I'm thinking about it. So I think that we might even, and I'm not corporate, so obviously, I'm talking as somebody who's not corporate. But I think that we need even deeper structural changes that value all of us and give all of us the opportunity to thrive. I think that what's happening is inside the restaurant, the people who are inside are actually putting up bigger barriers. And I don't think that they're going to be opening the door to people who are on the closed side of the sign.

Ebony Beckwith: Van.

Van Jones: Well, let me just say a couple things. I think being data driven here really backs up and supports what everyone is saying. Let's just be data driven. If you're in a pandemic, and you want to defeat it, you have to focus on where the hot spots are. And the hot spots, the United States is now the epicenter of the epidemic. Communities of color have now become the epicenter of the epicenter. And then inside of those communities of color, you have prisons and other things that are the epicenters of the epicenters. So just if you're data driven, you're going to say, " We've got to focus here. We've got to focus attention here. We've got to focus tests here. We've got to focus protective gear here. We've got to listen to the voices from the frontline. What do they need?" As Ellen was saying, that may be very, very different. You have a benefit if you are a corporate leader, if you have a diverse workforce, that you have people who are tasked with this. You're going to be smarter than your competitors by listening to the voices of people whose family members are on the frontline experiencing stuff that's not making the news, that's not making the headlines. And so there is a wealth of wisdom in your midst that I think you would be very, very wise to pay close attention to. I also want to say that as you begin to listen to the voices of women, in particular, there's a fantasy going on now. Hey, shoot, I used to have to travel. Now I can stay at home. This is great. That might be working out for me. It's not working out for my ex- wife and still best friend two blocks from here, who's got the boys right now. So let's not jump to if the next normal is up to us to define and to describe. And as we build and create this next normal, whether they're very creative ideas like coming from Dr. Jones, or very pragmatic ideas are coming from Ellen Jones, Ellen McGirt Jones, this is the time for wisdom, for creativity, for innovation, for thinking things through. And I'm so glad that Salesforce is doing this. I've known Mark Benioff for a very long time. In fact, I was one of the first board members on his first philanthropic effort. And I'm not surprised that Salesforce is willing to have a conversation like this because Mark has never been afraid of tough issues or tough conversations. And so I think it's very natural that this is going on. But different people hear this conversation different ways. If you're hearing us saying only you should be kinder to others, if you hear us saying only, you should be concerned about people you hadn't been concerned about before, you're only hearing half of what we're saying. The other half of what we're saying is you need to be smarter. You need to take advantage of wisdom, insight, genius, perspectives, that might be left on the other side of that door, that your competitor might go and get and beat your butt in the next normal. So this is about heart plus smart. That's what we're trying to bring to this conversation.

Ellen McGirt: Yes.

Ebony Beckwith: And I just want to end on with all of you, just really weighing in on the fact that I think it's important for people to know that they are not helpless and they are not hopeless in this situation, so and even really the smallest change can make a really big impact. So tell us. What are some things you're doing to make change?

Van Jones: I'll go first this time.

Ebony Beckwith: Okay. You go first.

Van Jones: I'm a part of the Reform Alliance. We are working to help people who are behind bars. You don't think about this, but you have 2. 4 million people who are in prison right now. They can't socially isolate. And the virus moves five to 15 times faster through a prison population than a normal population, which means not only are those people at risk, the guards have to come in and out. Food services has to come in and out. And what's happening now, you can do a heat map of Ohio, and you can tell where the prisons are just because that's where the viruses are. And you're hurting a lot of people. So you can't defeat a plague on the outside of a prison if you don't defeat it on the inside of a prison. Reformalliance. com, working very hard to get masks in, working with people like Madonna and all kind of people, to get masks in, to get some people safely out. You can support the groups that are working with vulnerable populations, women's shelters, homeless shelters, prisons, and a little bit goes a long way just doing that.

Ebony Beckwith: Thank you. Ellen.

Ellen McGirt: So I am working as hard as I can to amplify that stories that I collect and I hear. Van is a perfect example of a story. Camara's work is an example of amazing stories and insights. And turning my little piece of fortune, raceAhead, and just all of the relationships I have within the media, into an opportunity to amplify this work and to understand it better, and to be the heart and the smart, and to call for more inclusive leadership. So I am very lucky to have a job in journalism. This has been an extinction level event for local journalism in ways I have never seen. And we're also seeing spikes in infections in places where they don't have good information, and they don't have it from dedicated reporters who understand how communities work. So I'm looking for ways to amplify those voices as well. So I'm feeling very grateful to have this platform, to have these friends, to have a temporary proud last name, and mostly that there are an enormous number of people who are working very hard to understand this issue, how it's impacting people and communities and our future, and tell those stories the best they can.

Ebony Beckwith: Thanks, Ellen. And Dr. Jones, we'll wrap it up with you.

Dr. Camara Jones: So I am continuing in my decades old work of equipping people with tools for a national campaign against racism with my stories, so that people can talk about racism, with the question: How is racism operating here? Looking at the elements of decision making, so we can identify the levels in which we need to intervene, and with collectives, so that we can organize and strategize to act. And in particular, I'm very proud of the campaign against racism, a network of 23 chapters in nine countries that are still, each one working on racism in some area. So they're in Haiti, the US, UK, Rwanda, Zimbabwe, on and on. And we are meeting even now to understand not just our local stories about the pandemic, but to develop a global story.

Ebony Beckwith: Thank you. Well, this was amazing. Dr. Jones, Van Jones, Ellen McGirt Jones, thank you all so much for lending your powerful voices to this important discussion. It was a pleasure to have you here today, and thank you. Thank you so much.

Michael Rivo: That was Van Jones, Dr. Camara Jones, and Ellen McGirt, with host Ebony Beckwith, reminding us how this pandemic has exposed institutionalized inequalities in our society, and how now is the time to make diversity inclusion a top priority for organizations, companies, and individuals. For more insights into this topic and others, head over to Salesforce. com/ blog to help guide you through today's changing economic and social environments. Salesforce is here to help. I'm Michael Rivo. Thank you for listening. Tune in next week for an interview with Dr. Jane Goodall about cross species contamination, what we can learn from the pandemic about our environment, and how there is hope for the future. All that and more on the next episode of Blazing Trails.

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