Gucci CEO Marco Bizzarri and Salesforce Co-CEO Marc Benioff on Company Values and Creating Culture

Michael Rivo: From Salesforce Studios, this is Blazing Trails.

Matt Jeffe: Welcome to the Blazing Trails Podcast presented by WordPress VIP. I'm Matt Jaffe, Senior Director at Salesforce. On today's episode, we're joined by Marco Bizzarri, CEO of Gucci. Since joining Gucci in 2014, Marco has tripled the company's performance and helped turn Gucci into the well- known luxury brand it is today. In this conversation, Marco shares how he uses technology as a differentiator, how company values can transform an organization's culture and bottom line, and what Gucci is doing to move the needle in sustainability. But before we get to Marco, a word about WordPress VIP, who is making this show possible. WordPress VIP is the digital publishing solution that powers the world's top media companies, as well as marketing platforms, for some of the best known brands like Time and Facebook. Later on in this episode, you'll hear more of my conversation with their CEO, Nick Gernert. Now, here's Marco Bizzarri speaking with Salesforce's co- CEO Mark Benioff.

Mark Benioff: Please meet my friend Marco Bizzarri, CEO of Gucci. Welcome.

Marco Bizzarri: Thank you.

Mark Benioff: Have a seat here.

Marco Bizzarri: Okay.

Mark Benioff: So happy to have you.

Marco Bizzarri: Thank you.

Mark Benioff: Thank you for these shoes.

Marco Bizzarri: It's a pleasure, because after the amazing advertising campaign for Louis Vuitton this morning-

Mark Benioff: Yes.

Marco Bizzarri: But I went to your offices yesterday and I saw your team working on Gucci for next year, so thank you.

Mark Benioff: Well, we would love to have Gucci. Now, let me just express to you the demand. I can see that these gorgeous shoes, the clouds and the colors, there's high top version and low top-

Marco Bizzarri: Right.

Mark Benioff: ... but Icould choose which one I wanted. They've got the Gucci stripe on them.

Marco Bizzarri: Yeah.

Mark Benioff: Okay. How many people here would like a pair of these shoes? Raise your hands.

Marco Bizzarri: Union Square.

Mark Benioff: Do you want to give out your email address now?

Marco Bizzarri: Absolutely. No problem.

Mark Benioff: Okay. Let me ask you, Marco, this is your first time at Dreamforce and we're so happy to have you here. Do you have reflections, so far, of why you came to Dreamforce? What you're excited about? What I know about you, Marco, is that you are an amazing leader in your industry. You have worked for these incredible brands: Stella McCartney, and Bottega Veneta, and now Gucci, all within the Kering group. Before that you were at Accenture for many years.

Marco Bizzarri: Nobody's perfect.

Mark Benioff: Probably we have some Accenture people here, so we have to be careful.

Marco Bizzarri: I know. That's why I said it.

Mark Benioff: Anybody here work for Accenture?

Marco Bizzarri: Oh, oh.

Mark Benioff: Yeah. I told. We have an Accenture person here. Marco, you've seen a lot. Also, by the way, just noticed, I'm like, " Why is he wearing my shoes?" They say MB on them.

Marco Bizzarri: Exactly.

Mark Benioff: Were these your shoes? I'm like." Oh, he customized my initials, but maybe..." Do you wear fourteens too?

Marco Bizzarri: 14.

Mark Benioff: Is that your size, also?

Marco Bizzarri: Absolutely.

Mark Benioff: Oh, great. Well, we're going to be good friends, then.

Marco Bizzarri: Exactly.

Mark Benioff: How tall are you, by the way?

Marco Bizzarri: 6, 7".

Mark Benioff: 6, 7". Oh, you're too... my father was 6, 7". I'm 6, 5". That's a good coincidence. All right, Marco. You're from Italy. Where were you born in Italy?

Marco Bizzarri: I was born close to Modena, to Maranello, where the Ferrari, Lamborghini-

Mark Benioff: Great.

Marco Bizzarri: ...the fast cars are built, and where Massimo Bottura, your friend, has the restaurant. Nice area.

Mark Benioff: Yes, so you were born near Mordena or in Moderna?

Marco Bizzarri: In between Modena and Reggio Emilia. Yes. And I study in Modena.

Mark Benioff: Yeah. Massimo Bottura has built an amazing restaurant, but you think it might not be open too much longer? Should I get over there quickly, before he closes it?

Marco Bizzarri: I don't know. With Massimo, we've been in the school together for 5 years. Same desk. He's one of my best friend. We opened a restaurant together, actually, in Florence. We just got the first Michelin star two weeks ago, so it's fantastic.

Mark Benioff: Oh, wow. So you've also in the restaurant business?

Marco Bizzarri: No, it was Gucci.

Mark Benioff: With Gucci? Oh, all right.

Marco Bizzarri: crosstalk Gucci.

Mark Benioff: Great.

Marco Bizzarri: Massimo, I don't know what he's going to do. Massimo is very much now in the charity, and the Food for Soul and all these initiatives that are quite important crosstalk.

Mark Benioff: We know Massimo at Salesforce mostly because we work with the artist JR, and we've built a restaurant for the homeless in Paris. It's an unusual restaurant because it's in the basement of a church, and then at night all the most famous chefs from all over Paris bring all of their food and they serve all the homeless of Paris and it's so-

Marco Bizzarri: Amazing idea.

Mark Benioff: ...impressive.

Marco Bizzarri: Impressive.

Mark Benioff: Yeah. Isn't that amazing? You can give that a round of applause. We'll send some good thoughts back to Massimo Bottura. And then, also, a lot of good things come out of Italy, including, you mentioned the Lamborghini and so forth, these amazing cars. Has that been in your background as well?

Marco Bizzarri: Listen, I'm very, very privileged for many reasons. The first one because I work in this industry, that is impressive. I'm surrounded by so many creative talents, both in design and in business. We are very, very lucky because, being born in Italy, from all this history, and now I have quarters in Florence. Florence has been built, in terms of arts and beauty, mostly by Lorenzo De Medici, Lorenzo Magnificent, in the past. This kind of history cannot be replicated in any way. Just to tell you a date, Lorenzo De Medici died in 1492, that is the same year when America was discovered. We have these kind of roots, these kind of family generations that went through years after years. That the reason why I really believe that in Italy there's no other possibility that the being surrounded by beauty, and creating beauty, being exposed by beauty. I think this is the reason why, in the most cases, even other company from the luxury business, they produce in Italy, because this kind of network and capabilities is more families are working from generation to generation on this kind of activities. It cannot be replicated anywhere in the world. I think being in fashion, being in this industry, we have this possibility really, to have this kind of freedom of expression and anticipating trends. I think, going back to the question that you asked me, why I'm here in Dreamforce? Because we really believe that blending technology and human touch, and this kind of personal one-to- one, is going to be the differentiating factor for us, for our positioning, because we're not in fast fashion. In fast fashion you can just rely on data. In our business you need to rely on people. Blending the two together and using technology not just as a tool, but as a form of expression, I think really could make a difference for us. Otherwise, if we just use the technology, it's going to be a commodity, and we cannot be differentiated from anybody else. Whilst for us, differentiation is more important that anything else.

Mark Benioff: Well, that's an amazing story. Let me just ask you a couple of things about that, if that's all right, because, I think I mentioned to you for the last few years we've had also Brunello Cucinelli here, and there's also been a very similar thread that there's a power of the culture of Italy. You must have also wanted to influence me, because you gave me a copy of Dante's Inferno with the shoes, So there's a message in here, as well. But also when Brunello was here, he made a lot of these very similar points, that it's really the depth of the values and the culture of the country, and then how that gets expressed forward, and that we have to think about humanity, especially in regards to how technology is changing, and especially associated with these brands. Is that the right way to think about it?

Marco Bizzarri: I think is the only way. Is not an option. Especially our business, in our industry, creativity is at the center of everything. If creativity is at the center of everything, the best way to foster it, is to create a kind of an ambiance, a humus in the company, close to the company, that give the possibility to who is this creative talent to express themselves with freedom. In order to do so, I don't see any other way than creating a kind of ambiance of joy or belonging, happiness, respect for people or environment, freedom of expression, and really design what you want to do. Creating an ambiance where, if you make a mistake, you're not killed. Because in the business that we do, we take risks. We try to change aesthetic. We need to define or decide what is going to happen in 18, 20 more months from now in terms of consumer behavior. Data today are not able to give us this information, so we need to rely on people, on this talent that they've been built their experience in years. Alessandro Michele, our creative director, is an amazing talent that he thought about problems diverse from all his career, from the very beginning of his life. He's the first example where, if you are able to encompass, include everybody in the company with your values in the right way... because diversity can be a strength in the creative process, very much so, as long as you are able to include them, not to try to clone these people to make sure that they become as you. If you are able to create this kind of environment, then creativity fosters. Of course, this kind of work, putting values at the center, as you did... Not a rhetoric, you really inspired me in order to create these kind of values, but inaudible on the other side, I really believe that, as leaders, the value that you put in the company should be your values, otherwise, they're going to last for two months, three months. It's like when you do an interview, you try to be great or different to the person interviewing you, you can lies, you can cheat someone for one hour, but in two weeks you're going to be yourself. So in order to make sure that the values that you put in the company can have an impact, they need to your personal values as well. That the reason why I chose Alessandro Michele as creative director, because he's certainly a talented person, but first and foremost he's a good man.

Mark Benioff: Is authenticity your highest value?

Marco Bizzarri: Authenticity and empathy. The two of them, because you need to be authentic but you also need to create this strength and speed and energy in the company.

Mark Benioff: Which is higher for you?

Marco Bizzarri: Between the two? No. Authenticity and empathy and logic are part of trust, at the end. Wherever you put it. I think trust is one of the value that you support, so whatever you turn it around, it can be one or the other, according to the moment, but they all part of the same value, that is trust.

Mark Benioff: Mm- hmm(affirmative). Trust, authenticity, empathy.

Marco Bizzarri: Logic.

Mark Benioff: Logic.

Marco Bizzarri: Respect.

Mark Benioff: Respect.

Marco Bizzarri: And freedom. I think self- expression in our industry, and I think as well for our life, is very, very key.

Mark Benioff: How are you operationalizing your values into your company? When you look at those values like you just talked about, authenticity, empathy, respect, creativity, freedom of expression. How do you operationalize those? What kind of things are you doing as a leader to bring those values into your organization?

Marco Bizzarri: Listen, you need to lead by example. You can talk well, you can inaudible, you can send email, you can do whatever you like, but if you don't do that on a daily basis is not going to work. Just to give you some examples, because it's very difficult to create just a framework on that, when I joined Gucci at the very beginning, we did this complete turnaround of the company, from an aesthetic standpoint, from a business standpoint. The first reaction that we had from everybody, especially from competition, was, let's say, criticizing the change of aesthetic. Everybody. I stopped to watch Instagram for three weeks. Everybody was saying, especially competitors were saying, " Such a beautiful brand, what they did to this brand." After one year, they said, after seeing the first results," Yeah. It's not going to last." After three years, when the company was growing 40% every year, the said, " Now we have a problem." In order to make sure that, at the beginning of this turnaround, because at the beginning of this change all my people, the 10, 000 people that at that time were in Gucci, were able to understand why we wanted to change and how we are going to change it, I needed to talk to them. So I traveled everywhere in the world. I stay away for three months. I shook hands with at least 3, 000 people and I explained the reason why we wanted to make this change. That came from necessity because the company was not doing particularly well, but also it was a way to really change the kind of culture that we wanted to have in the company. Internal communication, at that time, in the first 12 months, was more important than external communication, because all the changes that we did in the first two shows with Alessandro, the product were not going to reach the shop for nine, 12 months. So we were talking a lot, but no substance was reaching the shops. So communication, direct communication, empathy, telling the truth in terms of authenticity were the way in which I was able to keep the talent in the company. That was for me the first objective. I didn't want the people that were in Gucci to leave the company, because that was possible. All the executive team that I had at that time is still there now.

Mark Benioff: Oh, your entire executive team is still in place?

Marco Bizzarri: Entire. They don't leave.

Mark Benioff: But you have radically increased the performance of the company. You've doubled the company's size since you've been there and you've become the fastest growing of all of the high fashion brands. How did you take the existing team, with this emphasis on story telling, and then double performance?

Marco Bizzarri: Tripling the business.

Mark Benioff: Triple the business. Sorry. Triple the business since you've been there. Right.

Marco Bizzarri: Yeah. Our business is a strange business. I never saw a success in our business through a business plan. You need to believe ideas, and when you believe in ideas there's no cost, no financial plan and no figure that you need to look at. Of course, you need to be cost- efficient, but that comes after. At the beginning you need to trust. You need to trust that person that are delivering a design that maybe you don't understand, because you are not a creative people in the sense of designer. But you need to trust, you need to see, and you need to look at some weak signals that you see around. For example, when I started doing the first show, the only people that they were praising the collection were Anna Wintour, Marc Jacobs, all these people that are coming from a long time, that they know exactly how to spot a genius. The normal consumers, they were rejecting the aesthetic, because you cannot turn around a company like Gucci, of the size of Gucci, aesthetically, listening to customers. That is different for many other industry. You cannot do that through focus groups, because customer in our industry they tend to look on the rear mirror. They drive the car and they ask you what it was there yesterday. Whilst in our industry you need to anticipate. You can anticipate just with the creative talents of people. That the reason why we are investing so heavily in people, in training, getting the talents, having a culture that attract people. That was not the case at the beginning. Everything goes around. Then technology helps in may other instances. They need to be blended together. But if you want to see what is going to happen in the next crosstalk-

Mark Benioff: What means to get blended together? The geniuses and the technology? The geniuses and the customers? What is getting blended?

Marco Bizzarri: No. Is going to be blended when... if we have, for an example, a line of bags that is particularly beautiful, we can ask the customer or the data, what kinds of size? Where you can put the pocket? That's fine. That data can help.

Mark Benioff: So the customer feedback-

Marco Bizzarri: Yeah. Correct.

Mark Benioff: ... hasto get blended with the genius.

Marco Bizzarri: Yeah, but in the very, very short term. It cannot tell you, it cannot predict what is going to happen in the next 18 months. At all. So you need to rely on people on that.

Matt Jeffe: We're going to take a quick break right now to bring you a conversation I had with the CEO of WordPress VIP, Nick Gernert. WordPress VIP is the leading provider of enterprise WordPress, and they power companies like Facebook, Spotify and more. I sat down with Nick at Dreamforce to discuss how his company is grappling with topics like future of work, digital transformation and more. I wanted to talk about something you mentioned, which is sustainability. Obviously that's front of mind for us here at Salesforce. What are you guys doing around sustainability at WordPress VIP?

Nick Gernert: The way we have to think about this is, going back to the mass footprint that something like WordPress has. While WordPress VIP is really just a fraction of the users, the customers we're working with have a massive impact in terms of the audience that they reach, and hundreds of millions of people on any given week are impacted by the work of our customers. Really core to what we're pushing on in this is, how do we run a scalable platform for our customers? Scalable happens in many ways, but absolutely, one of the things we keep in mind is just, what is the resource usage of the applications our customers are serving to their customers? We pour a lot of effort into working with our customers to look at the performance of applications that run on servers, that run on your mobile devices, that run on your desktops, and say," How can we do these things more efficiently?" Because when we look at, actually what's going on across hundreds of millions of users, we're looking at massive energy consumption across those types of things. By focusing and saying, " Look, we can do this more efficiently." This is not about just throwing more servers at something and it will run. This is, how can we do more with less? Which is better for everyone. It's better for you on your device, that the battery doesn't drain on it. It's better for the computer, the servers that aren't having to work as hard to serve the same basic message or content or whatever to is to that user. A lot of effort-

Matt Jeffe: Better for the planet.

Nick Gernert: Better for the planet. We're just looking at how can we really make sure we're running efficient applications at scale with our customers? It's almost like a duty in this. It's not like, okay we just throw more horsepower at it. It's no. Let's do it right. Let's do it the right way, and that's better for everybody.

Matt Jeffe: That was Nick Gernert, CEO of WordPress VIP. To find out more about them, visit wpvip. com. That's wpvip. com. And now, back to Marco Bizzarri and Marc Benioff.

Mark Benioff: Are you cultivating them, those people? Were they already there when you got there or did you find some of these people?

Marco Bizzarri: Alessandro Michele, the creative director of Gucci, was already in Gucci for 12 years, so was exactly the person that didn't want to hire, because when I joined, I wanted to change dramaticall; y Gucci, so I was looking for other characteristics. Big names, et cetera. But then, it happened that I met him for the first time for a coffee, and I fell completely in love with the guy with these ideas, the way in which he was connecting past and future, the way in which he was talking, the way in which he was matching my ideas in terms of business innovation. So I took the bet. Luckily.

Mark Benioff: He's been a key part of your strategy, but then also you've made a number of values changes in the business too, to increase performance. So you've changed things too. You have programs that you've created, like volunteer programs, and the Changemakers, and sustainability programs, but you're changing the core value system of Gucci. It's not just you're changing the aesthetic. Is that the right way to think about it?

Marco Bizzarri: Absolutely. As we said from the beginning, values is part of the change of the aesthetic. The two things goes together. This kind of freedom that you can express is because we have these values. The Changemaker program is in fact something that we launched one year ago and was inspired by the 1% Pledge that you started many years ago. It was a way for us to give the possibility to different culture to be exposed to the fashion industry. Because I'm coming from Italy. We are not a diverse country at all, but we think that diversity is a strength for the creativity, so we wanted to make sure that inaudible we took 12 university around the globe. We launched this program called Fellowship. We were able to gather 50 students that will join the design team in March this year, in Rome with Alessandro. They're going to bring ideas to Alessandro. Alessandro is a eclectic creative director, different from many other creative directors, especially in the past they were controlling everything by themselves, is opening the aesthetic of Gucci to many different collaboration. Up to now we did 150 collaboration. This digitalization of the world helped a lot, because he was able to scout different talents everywhere in the world, working with them, giving them the chance to express themself through Gucci. Normally, they were completely unknown, but it was using the possibility of bringing them in the catwalk or in Instagram et cetera, and creating people that now are quite successful. This way of exposing ourselves to different thing is key. Sustainability is certainly another aspect, another factor, because sustainability has two effect. The first one, if you think in a different way in terms of use of material, in terms of gas emission, in terms of use of the land that you use in terms of supply chain et cetera, you stress yourself in order to be innovative, because it's difficult to be sustainable in a company that's 100 year old. The business model was built from a long time. Changing that it takes time. But is not even an option. I think that what we are reading everywhere, from everybody, we don't have time. I was listening to Tim Cook before, certainly the way in which he projects creativity, trying to find different ways to tackling the gas emission is impressive. It should come from people like him. Creative companies like him. But the fact, today everybody is net zero, because if we encompass in the calculation the supply chain, especially for a manufacturing company like ours, we are polluting. Even if we set targets in 2050 to be net zero, is too late. Today there is no technology, no process that we can use to become net zero today. So that the reason why this morning, actually, I launched through Fast Company this challenge to the CEOs like you, or to the one in the inaudible, because we really need to act now to try to make sure that what cannot be offset, what cannot avoid and reused today, needs to be offset. To be offset means to protect biodiversity, planting trees, utilizing nature- based solution. That is the key today. In the meantime, working with technology. There are many startups that could help for our industry to reduce the gas emission. There are company that are trying to invent the leather in vitro. They do the leather in vitro, so all the tanning process is going to disappear. No pollution anymore. No use of water, et cetera, et cetera. But today they don't have the quality and the scalability. It's going to happen. In the meantime, we need to buy time. I read a piece in Bloomberg saying that we should need 300 billion Euro today to buy 20 years more in terms of gas emission, using nature- based solution. 300 billion Euro is peanuts. Is two months of investment in the army, in the world. If you think about the amount of money that in 2008 has been put in the market to avoid the financial crisis, I think is feasible, and that the reason what we started this activity, in order to offset for Gucci and become carbon neutral. We paid, in order to be carbon neutral, $ 8. 5 million. For a company of 10 billion like ours, is nothing. That is the reason why everybody should try to do it. Because of course is no the final solution, but is the solution today. We cannot just think that tomorrow we will have an idea that we will offset, because is going to be too late. That the reason why we launched this kind of challenge. The idea of the challenge came from the ice bucket, because we don't take us too seriously. The idea was, let's try to do the same thing in a ironic way, on a topic that is not ironic at all.

Mark Benioff: That's very similar to what Tim Cook was saying. Tim Cook was saying that one of his major goals is to make the Apple supply chain fully renewable just like his company already is today. Is that the same thing that you're saying, that you're going to go through your supply chain and make sure it's full sustainable?

Marco Bizzarri: Yes. Right. Because the point, as of today, in most of the companies, most of the industry there are two scope. Scope one, scope two, scope three. Scope three, the supply chain. Supply chain represent for all the industry approximately 80 or 90% of the gas emission. So if you don't touch the supply chain, you just touch your offices, your shops et cetera, you don't touch the most part of the gas emission. We need to go in that direction. We need to work both in terms of searching for in the right territories, protecting the biodiversity, trace what you do. We are 100% traceability in terms of what we produce, already in Gucci. We need to go in that direction, but the technology today is not at the level to allow us to be net zero. That the reason why need to balance a trade- off in the short term through offsetting. Is imperative for me.

Mark Benioff: Yeah. I've heard this now from a number of CEOs in different industries, some of them who are here at Dreamforce, like Adrian Hallmark is the CEO of Bentley, somebody who used to work with Stella McCartney, now yourself, Tim Cook, the CEO of Cargo, have all said the same thing, which is they want to have a fully, 100% sustainable supply chain, that this is their commitment to improving the state of the world. Is that inspiring to you, then, to able to pursue that through your industry?

Marco Bizzarri: Is absolutely key. The question to me is, which is the target? Because if you set the target 2050... There's a problem with narrative here, I think. I think in our industry we are quite good in narrative. Everybody is saying that we are going to kill the planet. They're not killing the planet. The planet will survive. We're going to kill ourself. That is very different. I don't want to kill myself, so that the reason why we need to balance the two things together.

Mark Benioff: Well, from the first industrial revolution to today, the total emissions output has been about 210 gigatons of carbon. Carbon itself is not additive to the planet, it's a constant on the planet. It's either in the ground or it's in the oceans. It could be on the trees. Actually, it could in whales. Whales sequester 1400 trees of carbon. Or it could ne in the atmosphere. We don't want it in the atmosphere. Basically, that 208 gigatons, that has been immersed into the atmosphere since the start of the first industrial revolution, and that's why the ocean is getting hotter, because it's sequestering carbon. There's about 40,000 gigatons sequestered in the ocean. There's 3000 gigatons sequestered, I think, in soil. These are approximate numbers. There's about 900 gigatons that are sequestered in the trees. So we have 3 trillion trees today. I was reading in Scientific American a study from a scientist in Zurich. If you were to put another trillion trees on the planet, it would suck out of the atmosphere all 208 gigatons of carbon, since the first industrial revolution. Are these the types of solutions that you are looking for? Ways to sequester the carbon? Ways to prevent the carbon from getting in the environment?

Marco Bizzarri: Yeah. Mostly are two. They are very simple. One is planting trees or protecting biodiversity, because they are two things that we are suffering. Look at all the fires that we have everywhere. San Francisco now, we arrived at, you are investing, as a city, $ 5 billion to order to make sure that the sea levels.... We are already treated the consequences. We are already in a situation where we need to take action. It's very inspiring to see so many CEOs and leaders and innovative people to really make sure that this doesn't happen.

Mark Benioff: Yeah. There's only so many ways to build to get the carbon out of the atmosphere. One is to reduce emissions. Then, the oceans are doing their part. The trees are doing their part, and then, the regenerative soils are doing their part. The tree is our most efficient technology for sequestering carbon, and if we all got behind an effort to plant a trillion trees, that would happen. Global warming, at least what I read, would stop.

Marco Bizzarri: Exactly. What I read as well.

Mark Benioff: Is that something you think that more CEOs and more companies should get behind?

Marco Bizzarri: I don't know.

Mark Benioff: Figure out how to get a trillion more trees up planted?

Marco Bizzarri: The last fashion show we invited 2000 people to our fashion show. We planted 2000 trees in Milan.

Mark Benioff: Well, you only have about 999 billion.

Marco Bizzarri: That the reason why you should be part of the challenge, so you could plant some trees as well.

Mark Benioff: Well, we're a net zero company today, and we'll be fully renewable hopefully shortly. That's our goal, but that's definitely been on my mind since I read the research which came out this summer, that there's an amazing scientist that is in Zurich, named Crowther, who basically came up with some AI technology and he was able to look at the satellite images of the planet and said, " The trees need to go on eight countries, and the would go exactly here." He's using Artificial Intelligence. Then I saw articles in Science and Scientific American and other journals on this, and I was thinking, " This is another level." At then, at the same time, I hear so many CEOs able to articulate, like you did so beautifully, sustainability as a core value. Why do you think that's happening right now? Why is sustainability becoming a core value to a company like Gucci or the Kering group which you're a part of, or others? Why is that becoming the core? Because certainly, when I went to business school, which was way back when, in'82 to '86, we didn't have a class on sustainability, for example.

Marco Bizzarri: Right. Same for me. Listen, fashion is the second most polluting industry of the world, after the oil industry, so for this reason there's a good and bad. The bad is that they're going to attack us much more because we are very visible. The good one is, because we are very visible, we can have traction and create a sustainability from people coming to us and understanding what we do. Together with that, what you read, what you said, is exactly what it scaring us for our kids, for our families. Is not so far away what is going to happen, and is certified by many sources. So that the reason why is not even an option. Is not even an ethical option. Is a matter of surviving or not. It's very simple. We don't need to think too much, we just need to do it. In a way or the other. I'm not saying that this is the only way. Everybody's going to do his own way. As long as we gather together, as you said. But there was this interview that I read recently mad to Einstein, that is the original one, not...

Mark Benioff: Right there on the right side of your shoulder.

Marco Bizzarri: Exactly. They asked him which is the most important invention of all times. The answer was, compound interest, that is the action that you take today together, they're going to have an exponential impact in the future for the next generation. If that is true, more people and more CEO they get in this way, the easiest is going to be together with the 2000 trees of the fashion show, to attack the future.

Mark Benioff: Yeah. I think that it's like I said, which is that, when I went to school, there wasn't a class on sustainability or volunteerism or, like you said, the 1- 1- 1 model, or how to use your company as platform for change, that business can be a platform for change. That's why I wrote the book Trailblazer, because I wanted to able to communicate what I've learned as a CEO, but what has inspired me, is people like you, Marco, who are spontaneously having the same idea, that your business is the greatest platform for change, and that great companies like Gucci and Kering and others can align on technology that's very accessible to us. Because the future is not happened yet, so if we're loathing a future that is not happened yet, we can get involved now and get a position to prevent that from happening, and certainly we don't want the environment becoming inhabitab...

Marco Bizzarri: Exactly.

Mark Benioff: Inhabit... In- ha- bitable. In- ha- bit- able.

Marco Bizzarri: Ask. Ask Einstein.

Mark Benioff: Ask Einstein. So we want to take action now and do something, and I think that, that is probably the best part about being a CEO-

Marco Bizzarri: Correct.

Mark Benioff: ...is that you can have a platform. Also, the other part is you, we have all these great customers, these trailblazers, and they're part of our ecosystem. In a way, they are our supply chain.

Marco Bizzarri: Absolutely.

Mark Benioff: We're trying to inspire them, and to excite them and energize them because I think a lot of the answers are also with them, so we're really trying to listen so deeply to what they have to say as well. I want to just get back to one thought, if that's all right. You said, we started out talking about the importance of Italy, and also the importance of creativity, the importance of empathy, the importance of authenticity. When you look at these core values for Gucci and you are talking to your employees, what is the highest value that you're bringing forth to your employees?

Marco Bizzarri: I think what I try to do is to make sure that the people have the ability to express themselves. Especially in big organizations like yours or like mine, the risk that we run, especially the younger kids, they don't have a voice, they cannot talk. In our world, most probably they have more answers than us. So, the possibility for them to be accessible, I think is a great thing because they can express themselves, they can give me a lot of ideas. Especially the beginning of this turnaround, I was doing many, many lunches with all the people below 30 years old, asking them three questions, saying, " Give me something that I can change." That is the easiest way. Our job is so easy. We just need to listen. You don't need to reinvent the wheel all the time. The people that are doing the job every day, they know what is not happening well. Together with that I create a so called shadow committee, like a shadow board of directors.

Mark Benioff: Yes, of course.

Marco Bizzarri: But below 30, always. Asking the same question that was asking to my team.

Mark Benioff: These are like reverse mentors?

Marco Bizzarri: Yes. Exactly.

Mark Benioff: They're mentoring you from the future.

Marco Bizzarri: Exactly. We think about, now we have 20, 000 people. Even if my ego is big, I cannot be more intelligent than 20, 000 people.

Mark Benioff: Mm- hmm(affirmative). What other kind of things would you like to do to be able to tap into the future and bring that forward and have those voices come into you more aggressively?

Marco Bizzarri: What we try to do, we create this... we called that Gucci Voices. We picked people from different industries or competencies. We're working with Colin Kaepernick, we're working with Cleo Wade, we work with people that really are not shy to express themselves. They reflect exactly the kind of value that we want to deliver, so speaking up, taking stance as a company, because if we say that we want to have certain values, we cannot refrain to taking stance. That is not to be politically oriented. I don't really care about that. We stand about values, not political things. I want to be exposed by people that can think differently, that can give me ideas, that can have a different background, different culture. To me it's a great asset. For the position that I have, the most important thing that I got is not about money. It's not about that. I think it's the possibility to talk to people that I admire. To be talking to you today. Or having the possibility to meet other people that for me are legend, that I just read in the papers. Using this position in order to get exposed to ideas and to gather people together and to change or to approach thing in a way that is more meaningful than just one single company. Because even if we are carbon neutral as Gucci, we are a drop in the ocean. We are a big company, but very small in a bigger scheme. So that the reason why the compound interest is key. Is the fact that we need to do it together with others.

Mark Benioff: So to the voices, those are voices inside Gucci, but also outside Gucci.

Marco Bizzarri: Outside Gucci. Exactly.

Mark Benioff: And you're bringing that in. And then you have this kind of rudder, which are these creative directors that are helping to figure out what the future is going because you can't figure it out by looking in the rear view mirror.

Marco Bizzarri: Exactly.

Mark Benioff: Is that the way to think about it?

Marco Bizzarri: Is that the way. Today, we have 200 designers, 200 creative people, just thinking about new product or new trends, et cetera, et cetera. They live in Rome, in this beautiful city, exposed the beauty every single day, and the only thing that I need to do to is to support them, to make sure that they can risk and they can do mistakes, and they have the money to take a risk. Alessandro Michele never saw a figure in the last five years. The first time that I tried, he was falling asleep as well.

Mark Benioff: Now, you have taken thought these high values, but went by this very quickly, but your performance has radically accelerated as a CEO. So you're a high performing CEO. You're delivering this break neck speed for your company. So what is the intersection point, then, between performance and values?

Marco Bizzarri: I think that performance is just a consequence. If you don't do the right things in terms of values, in terms of message, et cetera, in terms of aesthetic, you don't have financial results. I never start a new company looking at what is going to be my objective in terms of numbers. Good numbers is consequence of choices, of something that is more qualitative. The right people make the right choices in terms of strategy, and then the finance will follow, because it cannot be an obstacle. It cannot be.

Mark Benioff: Very exciting. Well, Marco, we're so happy you're at Dreamforce with all of us. Thank you so much, coming all the way from Italy to inaudible. Thank you.

Matt Jeffe: That was Marco Bizzarri, CEO of Gucci, and Marc Benioff, co- CEO of Salesforce. To discover more conversations like this, be sure to hit that subscribe button. That's going to do it for another episode of Blaze and Trails. Thanks for listening and thanks to WordPress VIP for presenting this show with us. We'll be back next week with a conversation about trust with Dara Khosrowshahi, CEO of Uber.

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